Auto production, parts modification and sale price adjustment [1.22.2 SP1]

[Nullabsolut]

Hi there!

First of all, this is a great game already!
I picked it up about two years ago, but only now did I finally give it a serious try. I just managed my first successful playthrough on CFO difficulty and after some 30-odd hours I can say I quite enjoyed it. However after 35 years ingame and a market share of roughly 80% with one model in almost every category and branches in every city, I probably spend around 80% of my time micromanaging my production every turn. Satisfying customer demand based on last month's estimated missed sales figures and adjusting prices for all the districts has become quite the chore, which is why I decided to stop with this playthrough.

Here are a few suggestions that in my oppinion would greatly improve gameplay with large companies:
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The auto-production option in the mega-menu is a great idea and would relieve the player of a lot of the fiddling with production in the later game. The way I played the game, this became a repetitive and tiring task.
There are some problems with the auto-production, which make it completely unusable (for me) at the moment however:

First, it adjusts production so that no sales are missed, which is good, however it builds up HUGE amounts of stock in the process. It seems the stock is not taken into account while calculating needed production. I suspect the new contract system might mess things up as well, due to the heavily fluctuating demand (I usually had 5+ contracts running at any given time).

Secondly, auto-production caps the shipping distance for all branches at maximum (20,000km). If like me, you have branches in every city between 1920-1935, the resulting shipping that occurs kills any chance for a profit, rendering the option pretty much useless. I'd like to have the option to set a flat shipping distance for the auto production option, or even better of course, not have the district shipping option locked, so I can still adjust that myself, and auto-production has to deal with it. Although that option might be a lot harder to get right I presume.

I attached my save game, just enable auto-production and see how it messes up the production.
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This might come from playing the game on CFO difficulty, I understand that with all game options enabled, eventually the employee benefits will be quite the money sink and it will harder to amass ridiculous amounts of cash fairly rapidly. But what made the game "click" for me, basically the moment where I felt like I had beaten the game, was when I discovered parts improments (or modifications). I basically got along by developing one chassis, engine and trans, doing about 5 major modifications on them respectively, and then using them in basically every available car body. That created cars that were way ahead of the competition in every category and made the game a little too easy in my oppinion.

Long story short, I think parts modifications are overpowered, especially since they require no time whatsoever.
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I use the district presets in the mega-menu a lot, they are essential for me managing production and sales.
It would be great to have an option to set sale price differences per district, either percentage based or flat. I usually sell cars for less money in markets like Asia or South America, than I do in Europe and North America. Manually setting this up is a chore. Once the price difference is set up, I can of course adjust sale prices percentage-wise globally, but for the initial setup this would save a lot of time.

Example:
I set the price level in North America and Europe to 100%, in Asia to 70%, in South America to 75%. Then I set a price for a new car in the mega-menu for the Europe district. I hit apply to all and the prices in the other districts are set accordingly.
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[Eric.B]

Hello,

First of all, this is a great game already!
I picked it up about two years ago, but only now did I finally give it a serious try. I just managed my first successful playthrough on CFO difficulty and after some 30-odd hours I can say I quite enjoyed it.

Glad you're enjoying the game.

The auto-production option in the mega-menu is a great idea and would relieve the player of a lot of the fiddling with production in the later game. The way I played the game, this became a repetitive and tiring task.
There are some problems with the auto-production, which make it completely unusable (for me) at the moment however:

Improving the auto production system for both players and the AI is the main focus of v1.22.3.

First, it adjusts production so that no sales are missed, which is good, however it builds up HUGE amounts of stock in the process. It seems the stock is not taken into account while calculating needed production. I suspect the new contract system might mess things up as well, due to the heavily fluctuating demand (I usually had 5+ contracts running at any given time).

This is due to a bug caused by a limited amount of time the game is allowed to use to calculation slider positions for auto production. It will be resolved in v1.22.3

Secondly, auto-production caps the shipping distance for all branches at maximum (20,000km). If like me, you have branches in every city between 1920-1935, the resulting shipping that occurs kills any chance for a profit, rendering the option pretty much useless. I'd like to have the option to set a flat shipping distance for the auto production option, or even better of course, not have the district shipping option locked, so I can still adjust that myself, and auto-production has to deal with it. Although that option might be a lot harder to get right I presume.

The locking of shipping to global will not be changed. The game does not have the processing ability to figure out which factory needs to produce what based on branch shipping distance overlaps. The current iteration of the Auto-production system spreads out the production lines as evenly as possible throughout all your factories. So if you want to improve your shipping costs, spread your factories out across the global.

As for the next iteration of auto-production, you will be able to limit production at factories based on marques and possibly models. Thus allowing you to shape where the vehicles are made. Shipping will still be global, but that should give you some options to limit global shipping.

I attached my save game, just enable auto-production and see how it messes up the production.

Thank you for the save game, it will help me when I start working on the autoproduction system. Was about to start asking folks for some.

But what made the game "click" for me, basically the moment where I felt like I had beaten the game, was when I discovered parts improments (or modifications). I basically got along by developing one chassis, engine and trans, doing about 5 major modifications on them respectively, and then using them in basically every available car body. That created cars that were way ahead of the competition in every category and made the game a little too easy in my oppinion.
Long story short, I think parts modifications are overpowered, especially since they require no time whatsoever.

I will probably be increasing the modification costs soon. That should help alleviate the issue. As for using the same components for every vehicle type, many companies are known to do this. GM practically used nearly the same 305 and a 350 engine in every vehicle they made in the 1980-2000s.

The AI needs to improve its business management skills and the used market needs to have more effect. Both of those will increase competition thus making the game harder. Both are planned for v1.22.3.

I use the district presets in the mega-menu a lot, they are essential for me managing production and sales.
It would be great to have an option to set sale price differences per district, either percentage based or flat. I usually sell cars for less money in markets like Asia or South America, than I do in Europe and North America. Manually setting this up is a chore. Once the price difference is set up, I can of course adjust sale prices percentage-wise globally, but for the initial setup this would save a lot of time.

This one probably won't be happening. If i'm not mistaken, you can adjust prices as a percentage in the auto-commands. (Or it may be a ticket or proposal to do that.) You would just set your prices globally, then bounce over to the auto-commands and adjust as a percentage quickly.


Thanks for the feedback. I think you'll be happy with v1.23

[Nullabsolut]

The locking of shipping to global will not be changed. The game does not have the processing ability to figure out which factory needs to produce what based on branch shipping distance overlaps.  The current iteration of the Auto-production system spreads out the production lines as evenly as possible throughout all your factories. So if you want to improve your shipping costs, spread your factories out across the global.

As for the next iteration of auto-production, you will be able to limit production at factories based on marques and possibly models. Thus allowing you to shape where the vehicles are made. Shipping will still be global, but that should give you some options to limit global shipping.

That's a shame, but I figured that might be too complex. Thanks for clarifying on how it works though, that should help me dealing with those limitations in the future.

I will probably be increasing the modification costs soon. That should help alleviate the issue.

Yes, they are way too cheap, too. I can do $400k modifications all day long when I have 10-figure sums in the bank

As for using the same components for every vehicle type, many companies are known to do this. GM practically used nearly the same 305 and a 350 engine in every vehicle they made in the 1980-2000s.

Heheh, that wasn't a complaint on balancing at all, I was delighted to see this strategy work so well in the game. Can't blame the game for rewarding smart play

This one probably won't be happening. If i'm not mistaken, you can adjust prices as a percentage in the auto-commands. (Or it may be a ticket or proposal to do that.) You would just set your prices globally, then bounce over to the auto-commands and adjust as a percentage quickly.

Yes, but in the auto-commands, the prices are always adjusted globally. Still no easy way to do district-specific pricing.  I attached a screenshot, where I selected the Africa district, it would be great if the price change could factor in the selected district. That's basically all I need. But maybe that's special needs, who knows

While on the subject, I noticed that the percentage-wise price adjustment in the auto-commands has some serious rounding errors when compared to the indicated values by the UI. $1000 with indicated 5% increase ended up as $1060, while $1000 with indicated 22% decrease ended up as $771. $1000 with 100% comes out as a correct $2000 though. This might be a little nitpicky and I guess it has to do with slider accuracy, but if you consider this fix-worthy, I can write a bug report.

The AI needs to improve its business management skills and the used market needs to have more effect. Both of those will increase competition thus making the game harder. Both are planned for v1.22.3.
Thanks for the feedback. I think you'll be happy with v1.23

I agree, looking forward to the coming releases and trying out the improvements!

[Eric.B]

Yes, they are way too cheap, too. I can do $400k modifications all day long when I have 10-figure sums in the bank

Agreed, I also may put restrictions in how often you can do it. I find people do it 5 or 6 times in one try. Which is a bit unrealistic, since the purpose of the feature is to extend the life of the component when it becomes very old and ratings have degraded.

Heheh, that wasn't a complaint on balancing at all, I was delighted to see this strategy work so well in the game. Can't blame the game for rewarding smart play

Although soon, I might be putting in some heavier penalities on using large chassis for little cars and small chassis on trucks, etc. We'll see.

Yes, but in the auto-commands, the prices are always adjusted globally. Still no easy way to do district-specific pricing.  I attached a screenshot, where I selected the Africa district, it would be great if the price change could factor in the selected district. That's basically all I need. But maybe that's special needs, who knows

Ok, there is probably a ticket for it then. I remember having this discussion with someone in the past.

This might be a little nitpicky and I guess it has to do with slider accuracy, but if you consider this fix-worthy, I can write a bug report.

It does have to do with slider accuracy, in that I cover the slider to an integer number to display to you. So you might have it on 0.05263547232342, but you see 5%. I'll make a note to round the numbers before applying the changes. Will probably ticket it for v1.25.

[Nullabsolut]

Agreed, I also may put restrictions in how often you can do it. I find people do it 5 or 6 times in one try. Which is a bit unrealistic, since the purpose of the feature is to extend the life of the component when it becomes very old and ratings have degraded. 

Can confirm, 5 or 6 times is exactly how often I did major modifications on a part in one go.

In the beginning I used the system as intended, i.e. in 1902 I did the aforementioned 5 or 6 major modifications on all of my year 1900 components and introduced a new generation of my cars with the updated components.

However I later moved to immediatly improving brand new developed components like this, before even designing the first vehicle with these components. This way I was able to design really cheap components and still get them into the 80+ score range. That proved way more efficient, since I had vehicles that cost roughly half in materials at almost twice the score compared to the AI vehicles.

You probably shouldn't allow modifications of freshly developed components and/or only allow one modification every x months, like you said.


Thank you for all the answers/clarifications, I really appreciate it. You can consider thread closed and customer happy.

[Rich]

First of all Thank you for this gem, I really enjoy the whole experience of making cars and trying out different ideas with this game. I loved the old DOS game Detroit have really enjoyed this version of that concept. Now on to the observations I have noticed so far

I too have found the Modification system to be a little broken. The part that I thought was absurd was being able to put a design in motion and mod it before it was designed for WAY cheaper than tweaking the initial design. A post-design flag needs to be put in here and then add some time (much shorter but still at least some time to modify the parts and build the prototype). The main thing I found was the fact that if you speed up development time to make the same level as the modified part the cost was astronomically more. I like the idea of having to make the mod spend some money AND add a little time. Also, if you add money as well as time but then have the time and money penalty go down for additional modifications if it is in production for a number of years it would more closely follow a refresh idea. The same idea could also be used with whole vehicles to update the styles and incorporate the new parts as part of one "model" update screen to compliment the idea of keeping the brand/model images going over the years, maybe even lock it down for a year or two between refreshes to the overall vehicle.

Another idea would be to add a post production step that would support dealer installed options and build to order requests. Adding to the trim implementation but not requiring any new designs, simply having variant styles and options via the same way you modify parts now except it would add a little to accommodate the variant parts and other equipment and give you a per unit cost and the player in turn sets the price for the trim variant, as well as a base model production penalty to represent building the added parts and equipment for the variant/add on trim levels. This fills the gap between base and loaded as each "trim" could get these added features, also the would be primarily after the initial sale sales. for example if your base model had and extremely cheap purchase price but offered some expensive options then customers in wealthier cities might additionally purchase them. I think it would be a nice addition, and it it is kept abstract enough would not present to large of a hurdle to add it. Possibly add a tech research area that can be funded to unlock option levels as more tech toys are developed in the time line. This could also be influenced by your dealer network. I like this concept because it give a realistic representation to most trim variants. The existing trim variants system is a bit limited to the idea of redesigning the base model and does not represent merely adding equipment or varying the appearance of the vehicle which makes sense for an engine upgrade but not for a different rims, more paint options and an upgraded radio etc.

Also regarding the designing of parts, I searched the forum and did not see a reference to saving parts like you can with bodies. I would love to have to only do some of my parts a few times and keep my favorites available for other games I want to play, I love being able to re-use my previously designed/tweaked body designs, and there have been a few engines and other parts that would be equally convenient.

Again thanks for your efforts and I hope this game continues to grow in popularity and success.

[Eric.B]

First of all Thank you for this gem, I really enjoy the whole experience of making cars and trying out different ideas with this game. I loved the old DOS game Detroit have really enjoyed this version of that concept.

Glad you're enjoying the game!

A post-design flag needs to be put in here and then add some time (much shorter but still at least some time to modify the parts and build the prototype).

Such flag already exists, I just need to increase the penalties drastically. And remove the ability to abuse it frequently. A delay for modification won't be implemented, however I can make it where you can only modify once every couple of years.

Also, if you add money as well as time but then have the time and money penalty go down for additional modifications if it is in production for a number of years it would more closely follow a refresh idea.

I think the opposite should be true (as it is now). The more you continue to modifying a component, the less returns you get and the price of modification goes up. Thus forcing the player to design a new component at some point rather than continuing to use the same component for the entire length of the game. If the modification costs were to go down each time, there would be less of an incentive to design a new part. The key is to make the first few modifications better than designing a new component. But after a few modifications, you should build a new component. A delay needs to be implemented to prevent over use of the modification system, and a steeper penalty for later modifications needs to be implemented.

The same idea could also be used with whole vehicles to update the styles and incorporate the new parts as part of one "model" update screen to compliment the idea of keeping the brand/model images going over the years, maybe even lock it down for a year or two between refreshes to the overall vehicle.

The vehicle modification system is handled via trims and new generations. This system will probably not be changed.

Another idea would be to add a post production step that would support dealer installed options and build to order requests.

This sort of request has been asked a few times. I wanted to avoid implementing a checkbox style system with hundreds of different options. Instead, we have abstracted all these things under sliders. If you increase interior materials, you use leather instead of cloth, if you increase technology in 1920, you'll have a heater instead of none. Etc. The slider positions is how you differentiate the trims. I won't be adding any sort of system beyond this for options.

Adding to the trim implementation but not requiring any new designs, simply having variant styles and options via the same way you modify parts now except it would add a little to accommodate the variant parts and other equipment and give you a per unit cost and the player in turn sets the price for the trim variant, as well as a base model production penalty to represent building the added parts and equipment for the variant/add on trim levels.

With the current system, as long as you're not changing much, you can produce a new trim in as little as month. Or if your base vehicle is under development, they will be finished at the same time. There won't be any system implemented that does not have a trim as a separate entity from the base model, thus we won't be implementing any sort of options system built into a single model.

The existing trim variants system is a bit limited to the idea of redesigning the base model and does not represent merely adding equipment or varying the appearance of the vehicle which makes sense for an engine upgrade but not for a different rims, more paint options and an upgraded radio etc.

Minor differences in trims is considered abstracted. Since little things like radios and pinstripes were dealer addons, installed at the dealership. And not manufactured differences in the models.  

Also regarding the designing of parts, I searched the forum and did not see a reference to saving parts like you can with bodies. I would love to have to only do some of my parts a few times and keep my favorites available for other games I want to play, I love being able to re-use my previously designed/tweaked body designs, and there have been a few engines and other parts that would be equally convenient.

This one is ticketed for v1.24: https://bitbucket.org/EricBJones/gearcit...externally

Again thanks for your efforts and I hope this game continues to grow in popularity and success.

Quite welcome, and thanks for the feedback! Sadly we're a bit too far into development for major changes. But fixing/implementing 2 out of the 3 issues isn't too bad.