AAR - Zap

[Frankschtaldt]

Well, that was bloody good fun =)

First time I've actually played all the way through.

After making V0.2 of my Mod I decided it would be fun to play through with a company making nothing but Electric powered vehicles.
Enter Zap!
I decided to start in London as (in the real world) they had a fleet of electric taxi's WAAAAAAY back in 1897 so it seemed the most fitting place to start.
I started by making a compact, a sedan and a phaeton all powered by the same 10hp motor and they got me off to a good solid start.
Then in 1905 I designed a new 20hp motor and I released new year models of all the cars with both the old and new engines (except for the Compact which only ever had one engine option each time I updated it). I also added a luxury sedan powered by the 20hp motor to the lineup.
I basically continued this process throughout the rest of the game, every 5 years I'd make a new engine and bring out new year models with the new engine and the next one down gradually putting very old engines out of commission. I'd also expand the product offer each 5 years, after the luxury sedan I added Tourings (with two engine options) and a Pickup (with a new towing speced gear box but only the biggest engine) in 1910. 1915 got skipped because of the war and in 1920 I brought out a 35hp motor and added a Van to the lineup.
1925 saw the introduction of a 55hp motor (damn close to as big and powerful as I could possibly make it!!!) as well as my big flash Limo!
The stars of the show were surprisingly the Luxury sedan, the Limo, the Pickup and the Van all of which had surprisingly high demand! I kept increasing their prices but people kept buying everything I made! Surprised anyone would buy a Limo that could only do 17km/h in Europe in 1925 =P

Expansion wise I decided to stay in Europe throughout the game. This was mostly a lazyness thing HAHA. I did have a go at expanding into New York in 1912 but pulled out in just over a year. Basically, the cost of freight meant I was losing money off every sale and if I bumped my prices up my sales would drop and I'd lose even more! I figure the only way to make cross ocean trade profitable are either to have a very high margin product that can absorb the cost or to open up a factory in the target continent and have it make specific vehicles for that market. The former I didn't have (though, I probably could have if I tried again in 1925) and that latter I just couldn't be bothered doing.

The point here was to push through to the end of the demo just to see the whole thing through whist trying out my mod as well as electric motors. In my next game I'm going back to petrol and will let the game take as long as it needs to. I want to get as big as possible a buy up as many opposition companies as possible!

[Arakash]

Thanks for sharing. The electric engines was an interesting choice.

Expansion wise I decided to stay in Europe throughout the game. This was mostly a lazyness thing HAHA. I did have a go at expanding into New York in 1912 but pulled out in just over a year. Basically, the cost of freight meant I was losing money off every sale and if I bumped my prices up my sales would drop and I'd lose even more! I figure the only way to make cross ocean trade profitable are either to have a very high margin product that can absorb the cost or to open up a factory in the target continent and have it make specific vehicles for that market. The former I didn't have (though, I probably could have if I tried again in 1925) and that latter I just couldn't be bothered doing.

Ive heard from several people on this, most including myself just use a different trim for different regions of the world.
So you can manufacture and sell that specific trim(basically the same vehicle with a different aesthetic) in that specific area and avoid accidental shipping expenses.
Balancing and refine this has been the subject of several different suggestions on the forum.

[Frankschtaldt]

Thanks for sharing. The electric engines was an interesting choice.

Expansion wise I decided to stay in Europe throughout the game. This was mostly a lazyness thing HAHA. I did have a go at expanding into New York in 1912 but pulled out in just over a year. Basically, the cost of freight meant I was losing money off every sale and if I bumped my prices up my sales would drop and I'd lose even more! I figure the only way to make cross ocean trade profitable are either to have a very high margin product that can absorb the cost or to open up a factory in the target continent and have it make specific vehicles for that market. The former I didn't have (though, I probably could have if I tried again in 1925) and that latter I just couldn't be bothered doing.

Ive heard from several people on this, most including myself just use a different trim for different regions of the world.
So you can manufacture and sell that specific trim(basically the same vehicle with a different aesthetic) in that specific area and avoid accidental shipping expenses.
Balancing and refine this has been the subject of several different suggestions on the forum.

That's what I do too!
And that's what this was referring to with this

open up a factory in the target continent and have it make specific vehicles for that market

as well as this

that latter I just couldn't be bothered doing.

lol. Just too hard for that I wanted for this game!
Some of those refinements we've been discussing are really necessary before it's really within my patience to do for 360 turns with 60+ branches, 5+ factories, and 2-3 different trims of 10+ vehicles.


Oh yeah, also I only ever did broad base advertising for Zap. I never advertised any of their vehicles specifically and I don't believe I suffered for it.

[Arakash]

Thanks for sharing. The electric engines was an interesting choice.

Expansion wise I decided to stay in Europe throughout the game. This was mostly a lazyness thing HAHA. I did have a go at expanding into New York in 1912 but pulled out in just over a year. Basically, the cost of freight meant I was losing money off every sale and if I bumped my prices up my sales would drop and I'd lose even more! I figure the only way to make cross ocean trade profitable are either to have a very high margin product that can absorb the cost or to open up a factory in the target continent and have it make specific vehicles for that market. The former I didn't have (though, I probably could have if I tried again in 1925) and that latter I just couldn't be bothered doing.

Ive heard from several people on this, most including myself just use a different trim for different regions of the world.
So you can manufacture and sell that specific trim(basically the same vehicle with a different aesthetic) in that specific area and avoid accidental shipping expenses.
Balancing and refine this has been the subject of several different suggestions on the forum.

That's what I do too!
And that's what this was referring to with this

open up a factory in the target continent and have it make specific vehicles for that market

as well as this

that latter I just couldn't be bothered doing.

lol. Just too hard for that I wanted for this game!
Some of those refinements we've been discussing are really necessary before it's really within my patience to do for 360 turns with 60+ branches, 5+ factories, and 2-3 different trims of 10+ vehicles.


Oh yeah, also I only ever did broad base advertising for Zap. I never advertised any of their vehicles specifically and I don't believe I suffered for it.

On the first thing, i assumed when you said you made vehicles specifically for that market, you were referring to designing entirely new vehicles, my mistake there, sorry.

On the marketing, as i mentioned in another thread, consider the cheap cost of newspapers and its listed high marketing effectiveness, i really have no idea why you wouldn't use it as much as possible.
There was a debate in another thread about whether broad base or specific is more effective, but i don't think anyone has demonstrated that specific is somehow useless or ineffective

In most of my games so far, unless im selling tiny volumes, i max newspapers in pretty much every city before 1920. As its a very low cost, that will rarely get the marketing cost per unit sold beyond 20-50(or much lower in large cities).
If im short on money i take money first out of the least effective marketing places(like magazine/sporting), from both broad base and specific, before even thinking about reducing newspapers.

So yeah, im really baffled by the decision, unless you were just trying to limit your micromanagement or something other practical concern.
Or perhaps your pursuing a specific marketing strategy where your consumer base doesnt read or use newspapers?
Or were you really focused on getting your image as high as possible through marketing alone?
(Just a bunch of wild guesses)

[Frankschtaldt]

You misread me again.
I maxed out news papers and used a decent amount of magazine and some billboard advertising but I only ever used broad base.
As I said in the OP this was an exercise in getting to the end in one piece and I'll do a more detailed campaign later. I was trying to limit my micro management because I didn't want the hour long turns I was dealing with in one of my other games that I ended up abandoning (for now). I just wanted a quick and (relatively) easy game I could push through to 1930 and see what happened at the end of the demo =)

[Arakash]

You misread me again.
I maxed out news papers and used a decent amount of magazine and some billboard advertising but I only ever used broad base.
As I said in the OP this was an exercise in getting to the end in one piece and I'll do a more detailed campaign later. I was trying to limit my micro management because I didn't want the hour long turns I was dealing with in one of my other games that I ended up abandoning (for now). I just wanted a quick and (relatively) easy game I could push through to 1930 and see what happened at the end of the demo =)

I can understand your desire to keep your game simple and relatively easy, so thats more than enough justification to keep your marketing simple like you did. As we would say in Australia, that's "fair enough".

I think i didn't misread you this time. You were basically saying:
You did a variety of broad base advertising in different marketing categories.
You then said in post 3 that you didnt think you were hurt by not using specific advertising in various marketing categories.
At least in the current build, i disagree with that.
I said that, especially in the case of newspapers in the current build, specific marketing is extremely cost effective. I also suggested that imo, newspaper specific marketing is more cost effective than broad base marketing in other categories in very early years.

[Frankschtaldt]

You misread me again.
I maxed out news papers and used a decent amount of magazine and some billboard advertising but I only ever used broad base.
As I said in the OP this was an exercise in getting to the end in one piece and I'll do a more detailed campaign later. I was trying to limit my micro management because I didn't want the hour long turns I was dealing with in one of my other games that I ended up abandoning (for now). I just wanted a quick and (relatively) easy game I could push through to 1930 and see what happened at the end of the demo =)

I can understand your desire to keep your game simple and relatively easy, so thats more than enough justification to keep your marketing simple like you did. As we would say in Australia, that's "fair enough".

I think i didn't misread you this time. You were basically saying:
You did a variety of broad base advertising in different marketing categories.
You then said in post 3 that you didnt think you were hurt by not using specific advertising in various marketing categories.
At least in the current build, i disagree with that.
I said that, especially in the case of newspapers in the current build, specific marketing is extremely cost effective. I also suggested that imo, newspaper specific marketing is more cost effective than broad base marketing in other categories in very early years.

WOOT! Aussies unite!!! HAHA

You read me spot on this time.
In saying I don't think I was hurt by not doing specific marketing what I mostly mean is that I was able to regularly upgrade my factory and increase my prices and still sell nearly everything I made despite not doing model specific marketing.
If I had done specific marketing I may have been able to charge higher prices or sell the produce from a second or third factory (or possibly even charge a high enough price to make exporting to New York profitable??) but the aim of this game was a quick and simple game and the broad base marketing was plenty good for that.

I've been playing around with a startup in Australia for the lolz. Trying to keep my production based solely in Aus and exporting to wherever I can turn a profit (So far, only Tokyo, Osaka and Auckland) but tomorrow night I'm planning on starting a mega game where I'll be selling to every market I can with a number of market specific trims and hopefully a few other Marque buyouts. I intend to push the company as far as I can and make as much money, with as broad a product range and as big a market share as I can possibly get!
I just need to settle on a place to start =)


The other scenario I'm hanging to try out is the low volume exclusive sports car manufacturer, exporting high price, low turnover cars worldwide from one factory. That will have to wait till 1.12 and the speed limit fix though.

[Arakash]

(or possibly even charge a high enough price to make exporting to New York profitable??)

Ive tried this, with a fair amount of failure before.
As the transport costs are so high at this period in time, in most of my games i need to charge an Extra 100 even for cities close to the factories.
Even in 1921 in my Japan game im playing atm, it still costs me avg of 84 per unit just to ship my cars from Osaka to Tokyo :S

The markup would have to be massive for really distant overseas shipping, the idea makes me cringe.

Maybe Luxury cars would be ideal for that? they seem to be the least sensitive to high prices.

I've been playing around with a startup in Australia for the lolz. Trying to keep my production based solely in Aus and exporting to wherever I can turn a profit (So far, only Tokyo, Osaka and Auckland) but tomorrow night I'm planning on starting a mega game where I'll be selling to every market I can with a number of market specific trims and hopefully a few other Marque buyouts. I intend to push the company as far as I can and make as much money, with as broad a product range and as big a market share as I can possibly get!
I just need to settle on a place to start =)

The other scenario I'm hanging to try out is the low volume exclusive sports car manufacturer, exporting high price, low turnover cars worldwide from one factory. That will have to wait till 1.12 and the speed limit fix though.

I tried Australia on one of my first games too, i really should give it another go now ive played in other less developed countries.

Some interesting aims youve got
Sports cars sounds interesting especially, i cant say ive ever tried that before, it would fit in well with the racing.

If your looking for a really big terrible challenge, see if you can match the Model T in sales volume rather than money/profits. They list 200,000 in a year by 1913 and 500,000 by 1915 at that point its price was listed as $550. I find it pretty hard to match in the current build with all the competition diluting sales.

[Frankschtaldt]

(or possibly even charge a high enough price to make exporting to New York profitable??)

Ive tried this, with a fair amount of failure before.
As the transport costs are so high at this period in time, in most of my games i need to charge an Extra 100 even for cities close to the factories.
Even in 1921 in my Japan game im playing atm, it still costs me avg of 84 per unit just to ship my cars from Osaka to Tokyo :S

The markup would have to be massive for really distant overseas shipping, the idea makes me cringe.

Maybe Luxury cars would be ideal for that? they seem to be the least sensitive to high prices.

In my Australia game I'm shipping to Tokyo and Osaka and paying 1800-2000 average freight per car but I'm still turning a (slight) profit!

I've been playing around with a startup in Australia for the lolz. Trying to keep my production based solely in Aus and exporting to wherever I can turn a profit (So far, only Tokyo, Osaka and Auckland) but tomorrow night I'm planning on starting a mega game where I'll be selling to every market I can with a number of market specific trims and hopefully a few other Marque buyouts. I intend to push the company as far as I can and make as much money, with as broad a product range and as big a market share as I can possibly get!
I just need to settle on a place to start =)

The other scenario I'm hanging to try out is the low volume exclusive sports car manufacturer, exporting high price, low turnover cars worldwide from one factory. That will have to wait till 1.12 and the speed limit fix though.

I tried Australia on one of my first games too, i really should give it another go now ive played in other less developed countries.

Some interesting aims youve got
Sports cars sounds interesting especially, i cant say ive ever tried that before, it would fit in well with the racing.

If your looking for a really big terrible challenge, see if you can match the Model T in sales volume rather than money/profits. They list 200,000 in a year by 1913 and 500,000 by 1915 at that point its price was listed as $550. I find it pretty hard to match in the current build with all the competition diluting sales.

lol, that would be nuts! Good old Henry didn't have anything near the level of competition we have to deal with! =P

[Eric.B]

lol, that would be nuts! Good old Henry didn't have anything near the level of competition we have to deal with! =P

Yea, he had more. Every company in the game is modeled after a real company. Cities, Founding years, and model preferences included...

You're only playing against A-E

[Frankschtaldt]

Well I'll be jiggered! I did not know that!
He did at least have the advantage of having worked out how to run a substantially more efficient production line than any of his opposition though.... Or am I wrong again? LOL

[Geredis]

I'd say your right. But what he did would probably be the equivalent of a Level 3 or Level 4 factory by that point which, while not impossible, is certainly quite a feat to get to that point, no?

[Arakash]

I'd say your right. But what he did would probably be the equivalent of a Level 3 or Level 4 factory by that point which, while not impossible, is certainly quite a feat to get to that point, no?

Youve got me interested, as i think you seem to be suggesting know something which im not sure has been mentioned elsewhere.
Its part of a wider topic on factories that has come up in various places(here for e.g.), but i didnt think anyone had figured out the exact mechanics of it.

It might be off-topic here, but i would be interested to hear your contribution to that thread i linked, as your post seems to suggest you know how to make efficient factories.
I would like to know this as well for my own games I know how to make high capacity factories and low cost factories, but im not aware of the best slider layout for reducing cost per unit built(efficiency).

[Eric.B]

It's debatable what Ford did well.

The vehicles were not the cheapest, most reliable, or the highest qualities.
The assembly line method attributed to Ford played a roll in the beginning however by 1912 everyone was doing it.

A lot of people point to the fact Ford paid higher wages than anyone else. This lead to two things, talent retention, and the low end workers could actually afford what they're making. So if you worked at Ford, you bought a Ford. A tickle down, trickle up effect.