[FIXED]Radial Engine Format Needs To Be Added To the Game

[JPK]

        Radial engines were some of the most important engine designs of the 20th century and should be included especially since VENT has be working on an airplane game. The radial I am referring to is not the wankel rotatory cycle but the radial piston engine that had all cylinders around a common crank. The engine was featured in several cars and can be made for various applications such as in a small car with not much of an engine bay or in a fashion to make the most powerful engine possible. Think about it simple single row radials can be 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 cylinders and then multiple rows can be added all the way to a 16. The game could feature engines from 3 cylinders to a 16 row radial with 144 cylinders even if length is capped at a straight 8 the engine could still be a 72 cylinder.

[Frankschtaldt]

I totally agree. Radials would be awesome!
They're not ideal for use in cars but would still be cool.
Also, they'd integrate well with a suggestion I made elsewhere about government contracts for aircraft engines being included in the government car and truck contract mechanics.

On the note of size, boat diesels have been made with up to 112 cylinders but the most ever used in an aircraft was 56 buy the russians and that was in very limited numbers. Anything more than two rows in a radial starts to become insanely complicated as they have to go to water cooling (MUCH more difficult in a radial than an inline engine) as front cylinders block off air flow to back rows. I would say there'd be no point in allowing any more than 4 rows and there should be a fairly sizable jump in weight, cost and production time for anything beyond two rows.

[Arakash]

Interesting idea, it sounds like something that would be an interesting addition in an expansion or perhaps modded in, depending on how many vehicles were made using that type of engine.
If you don't mind, it would be interesting to hear how many vehicles were made with those types of engines.

It looks like Eric has commented on this before, here is a link
http://www.ventdev.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=831
Ill copy paste it here anyway:

First, I've noticed some engine types and configurations to be missing. I looked in the xml and saw that some of what I thought was missing would come about later, and that is good and as it should be. But some things are still missing, notably Steam engines, the option for a W18 down the line, engines of an X configuration, rotary piston engines (different from the Wankel, which obviously is pistonless), Turbine engines, twincharging, maybe even electrocharging. All of these are things that have been experimented with throughout the history of the automobile, with varying success.

Some configurations appear when they do historically. Sadly I don't have the files in front of me so I can not look at them, but a good example would be the W engines. They weren't designed until the 90s if memory serves me correctly.

Other styles of engines and fuel types will probably be added at a later date. There are no guarantees however. That being said adding anything I miss is as simple as editing the xml file you found this info in. I've tried to make the game as easily modifiable as possible. Though I will admit it could be easier to mod.

Edit: I forgot to mention, im also really looking forward to the eventual implementation of fleets/governement contracts for engines as well as vehicles in general. It sounds like it would be interesting/fun.

[Frankschtaldt]

Thanks for the link!

Radial engines in cars are pretty rare. I can't find the exact numbers but I only know of 3 cars that used radial engines and none if them were successful.
The problem with them is they are very tall and wide and need good air flow if they are air cooled which means they pretty much have to be mounted right on the front if the car which causes major weight distribution issues making the car difficult to control and dangerous in a crash.
The alternative is to water cool the radial (which has been done once in a car that I know of) which lets you mount the engine anywhere you want saving the weight distribution issues. But, as I mentioned before, the problem is that water cooling radial engines is very difficult and complex. This massively increases cost, weight and chance of failure.

If all that wasn't enough, radials also tend to rev a lot slower than inline engines do which limits peak power output. Less of an issue these days but back in the days when cars were pushing their engines close to the limit just to get to 100km/h (60mph) it was a big problem.

Put bluntly, radial engines are inferior in almost every way to inline engines for automotive use.....

Having said that, they have been used so it would make sense to include them because people will see it as something cool enough to make them buy the game if they were otherwise unsure.

Also, there have been a number of tanks powered by radial engines. Mostly in the 20's to 40's. Most of the problems with radials in cars aren't a factor for tanks. Weight isn't an issue so you can mount a big fan to cool the engine wherever it's mounted and tank designers tend to be less concerned with occupant comfort so using lots of room on the engine isn't a problem and tanks want slow torquey engines so the lower rev limit doesn't matter.

Eric has said tanks might be a dlc/expansion thing so maybe introducing the radials as part of that could be an option?

Y'know, I personally would enjoy the challenge of trying to make a successful company that only used radial engines. If they were implemented right it'd be super hard!

[Arakash]

Thanks for the link!

Radial engines in cars are pretty rare. I can't find the exact numbers but I only know of 3 cars that used radial engines and none if them were successful.
The problem with them is they are very tall and wide and need good air flow if they are air cooled which means they pretty much have to be mounted right on the front if the car which causes major weight distribution issues making the car difficult to control and dangerous in a crash.
The alternative is to water cool the radial (which has been done once in a car that I know of) which lets you mount the engine anywhere you want saving the weight distribution issues. But, as I mentioned before, the problem is that water cooling radial engines is very difficult and complex. This massively increases cost, weight and chance of failure.

If all that wasn't enough, radials also tend to rev a lot slower than inline engines do which limits peak power output. Less of an issue these days but back in the days when cars were pushing their engines close to the limit just to get to 100km/h (60mph) it was a big problem.

Put bluntly, radial engines are inferior in almost every way to inline engines for automotive use.....

Having said that, they have been used so it would make sense to include them because people will see it as something cool enough to make them buy the game if they were otherwise unsure.

Also, there have been a number of tanks powered by radial engines. Mostly in the 20's to 40's. Most of the problems with radials in cars aren't a factor for tanks. Weight isn't an issue so you can mount a big fan to cool the engine wherever it's mounted and tank designers tend to be less concerned with occupant comfort so using lots of room on the engine isn't a problem and tanks want slow torquey engines so the lower rev limit doesn't matter.

Eric has said tanks might be a dlc/expansion thing so maybe introducing the radials as part of that could be an option?

Y'know, I personally would enjoy the challenge of trying to make a successful company that only used radial engines. If they were implemented right it'd be super hard!

On the Radials:
Thanks for describing their pros and cons and some of the history, that was an interesting read.
While im pretty familiar with WW2 tanks and warplanes, i didn't realise that tanks also used the radial engines, that was interesting to hear.
Just doing some reading on wikipedia was interesting, apparently a lot of the radial engines for medium/heavy tanks, like the Sherman were 20L ones At 400-600 HP these were some damn big engines.

That said, i think the small number of vehicles produced with radial engines justifies them being less of a priority than other game fixes/improvements.
You may be right that the novelty of those engines and the challenge they present may attract new players and interest existing ones. (it sounds challenging and interesting to me too)
Even knowing that, my opinion is that its more appropriate for a later expansion or modding, rather than the initial game release.

On General Military Vehicles: (im drifting a bit off topic here)
I think its plausible to be able to design regular military vehicles, everything from support to reconnaissance, but not really tanks (for the reasons i post at the end).
A good example of this might be the Kübelwagen, which judging from its Wiki page, seems to just have been a modified, lightweight and strong beetle with off-road capabilities.

Beyond designing support or reconnaissance vehicles, i also think you could still design and contract out engines for most light tanks without any major changes to the Gearcity design interface.(medium and large tanks with huge engines might be a problem, but light tank engines like the 120hp S6 engine of the Panzer 38(t) are totally plausible imo)
I hope we see both of these things eventually.

On the Tank Design in Gearcity: (this is also off-topic, but i had to say it
It seems a bit pie in the sky to me. (overambitious)
Specifically, the idea of actually designing them in the vehicle screen.
I tend to think its really outside the scope of Gearcity now and perhaps for a long time.
A lot of support vehicles could have their place in the game, everything from trucks to reconnaissance or general use cars, but i think vehicles designed purely for armored combat(tanks) really require very different parameters/options, making them more suitable for a game of their own imo.

[Frankschtaldt]

I tend to agree with you. Radial engines would be super cool but really aren't worth the effort with a pure car focus. I also agree that tanks are very different to cars and probably shouldn't be included as something you can make in this game.
However, during both world wars (and other smaller wars) it wasn't uncommon for car manufacturers to branch out into (or totally focus on) engines intended for use in tanks, aircraft and boats. Having that as an option would be very cool but it would require the contract system as it currently stands to undergo a fairly substantial overhaul (i think, maybe not that substantial? Eric?) so the game could set demand for certain components for sale to non-car manufacturers. It'd probably also necessitate having production of components to require factory capacity which I don't think it currently does.

All probably way too much work for now as you said. But maybe something to add to the list for future expansions? =)

[Arakash]

I tend to agree with you. Radial engines would be super cool but really aren't worth the effort with a pure car focus. I also agree that tanks are very different to cars and probably shouldn't be included as something you can make in this game.
However, during both world wars (and other smaller wars) it wasn't uncommon for car manufacturers to branch out into (or totally focus on) engines intended for use in tanks, aircraft and boats. Having that as an option would be very cool but it would require the contract system as it currently stands to undergo a fairly substantial overhaul (i think, maybe not that substantial? Eric?) so the game could set demand for certain components for sale to non-car manufacturers. It'd probably also necessitate having production of components to require factory capacity which I don't think it currently does.

All probably way too much work for now as you said. But maybe something to add to the list for future expansions? =)

Definitely something to think about in the future.
You made a good point about car manufacturers branching out into tank engines.

Im not sure how practical it is, as you say it really depends on how easy it would be to set up the demand for these engines.
That said, i dont think it would necessarily need component production, if Governments could be set up as special Company entities, you could put them on the current contract system, where they buy engines which are thrown into a black hole simulating demand.
Considering my lack of knowledge on how the game is designed, that's nothing more than a guess :S A good one i hope

I was going to write up a (probably long winded)description of an ideal contract system for this, but i dont want to entirely derail the thread off the radial engine discussion. Im probably already guilty of that though

[Frankschtaldt]

Im not sure how practical it is, as you say it really depends on how easy it would be to set up the demand for these engines.
That said, i dont think it would necessarily need component production, if Governments could be set up as special Company entities, you could put them on the current contract system, where they buy engines which are thrown into a black hole simulating demand.
Considering my lack of knowledge on how the game is designed, that's nothing more than a guess :S A good one i hope

You sir, are a genius! That is the perfect way to handle it!!! (I think, Eric may feel differently haha)

I was going to write up a (probably long winded)description of an ideal contract system for this, but i dont want to entirely derail the thread off the radial engine discussion. Im probably already guilty of that though

Perhaps a new thread is in order? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts =)

[Eric.B]

Adding Radial engines to the game would not take much effort. (One line in xml, and a pretty picture)
However we wouldn't add it to the vehicle artwork...

Anyway it's something I'll look at when I sprinkle in some other fuel types that have been requested.

[Eric.B]

Radial, Rotary, and Steam engines have been added to the game. They'll be included in the 1.18 patch.