Visual Entertainment and Technologies Forum - My (Very) Successful company

Hello there,

I'll try to make this thread as structured as I can, but I totally forgot to take print screens during my game (except in later dates), so I'll try to explain myself the best I can...

So I started my company in NY (Which is obviously the bigger market for US), same as I did in Detroit a few years ago. Simply because, well, not that many places were to sell cars in 1900!!!

As a matter of facts, this is my first game as I had been trying 2-3 times to design cars without success before it. Once I got it, I launched this game to play!

So, my first car was a Sedan, the 1900 Iza Motors Co Hamburger (Yeah, I know...) that had been available for production by the end of 1901.
[attachment=562]

So I started to sell it at $ 2000 (or maybe 2500, I can't remember), but the price has been moving between 2500 and 1600 mostly... My technique here was to setup production, to check sales, then readjust production, and then, once I could not get any more sales, I adapted the price. As a matter of facts I also had to open several branches overtime to sell it, but I stayed within the US only! That car helped me making lots of money, and before launching the Duck, I could afford building a balanced factory in Boston. And I sold this car until 1915, year of the updated trim/model, the Hamburger 2...

Between those two cars, I launched the Duck, a Full-sized Sedan because I noted the demand was above average... Well, that was obviously a good idea, and I sold this car from 1907 to 1916 at a higher price than the first one... About +$500 more than the hamburger... Again, this production allowed me to get a full high-everything factory in Chicago.
[attachment=563]

And then, after having already bought some other companies (I usually made between 300K to 800K a month during that period) in order to fast use their production facilities while constructing my new factory in Chicago (well fast use is a quick-said word as I had to close everything that I did not want to use), I decided to launch my sports car. Because Nothing beats a sports car lol! And here came the sportster, in 1912.
[attachment=564]
For this one, again, in my mind, the scope was higher than the two previous one, and I also sold it $500+ than the Duck (3500 at launch, until 1800 by the end). Still with a certain success! This is exactly when I decided NOT to launch any new car WITHOUT having built, first, new production facility...

That is exactly when my sales went high!!! I made my first mil/month in 1913, as my sportster sales went from 500 in 1912 to 10000 in 1913 (with the new factory, I can not remember exactly where)! Of course, I retooled all my factories, but my greatest discover had been to retool branches on summer 1913! WAOW, could not imagine that result!!! By then, I built then 2 high-everything factories (all sliders up!) for 10m each! And also, I started to close all my branches to immediatly open now ones (Again, with all sliders up)...

So, as I noted that the pickup design was quoted HIGH, I made the decision to produce a pickup truck. It took me barely the same time to develop it as it took to build a new factory (Yeah, I already did not have any money problem left) and then I launched it, the Celeste.
After this, sales were not high, they were INSANE!!! Between 1916 and 1922 (6 years) I had produced and sold more than 1200000 celeste, as well as I launched the hamburger 2 in 1916. So I got VEEEEEEEEERY rich, and I was continuously buying all available market shares any time they were available.
[attachment=565]

At this point, I planned to restart the company I bought several years before, in order to use it in Europe, and therefore, to expand. The Buttgotti company, which had been famous here in europe (And also which had won more races that ANY constructor so far). I had problems designing the car as I did not find how to create Buttgottis instead of IMC cars... But once I managed to do so (Thanks again Eric), I created first the GP Type 35A which was designed and sold only to be allowed to participate (and hopefully win) in racing... Well, it did not work out with the racing stuff, but I was low producing it (around 25) a month at a price of $ 5000 and well... It sold!
[attachment=566]

Then, I wanted to enter more seriously the market there, so I created the Brescia, and opened branches in France, England and Germany, as weel as a new high-everything factory in Genoa (Production costs almost negatives lol). Results were there, and I continued the same type of expansion I already have realized within the US market a few years before. For two years of selling, I produced and sold 250K of it with prices between 3000 at launch and 2500 nowadays... It became, in two years ONLY, the 6th sales record, not bad isn't it?
[attachment=567]

Well, then I relaunched a new GP car (Type 35B, evolution of the 35A) and same as before, produced it in small amount the first year (24 sales, at $5500)... Then I decided to look other way, lowered the price at 4500, and then 4000 (in 1923), but the second year of selling, I sold 10500 of those, that's what is called a raise in sales right?
[attachment=568]

And... That's it... This is were I stand right, december 1923. Good news is I had planned to do this thread about 1921, so I took pictures of the december monthly sales and profits, as well as market capitalization. One thing I forgot to mention though, I launched an IPO in the very begining of the game, which led me to progressively loose my personal shares... But in the end, who cares? I'll try not to be on the stock market until I already have huge sales results, but I still don't know if this is some kinda related to one another (maybe I was that successful because of the IPO)...

Here are the screens:
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December 1920, first is Sales & Profits, 2nd is Market CAP:
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December 1921:
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Interesting read and nicely done.

Yeah those pickups certainly do sell very very well in the US, even straight from the start of the game.
You can base an entire company around them easily in the US.

Edit: You just editied the charts in afterwards i see, so i wont request them
A few charts would be interesting to see, like the yearly all sales, all time profits as well as the R&D screens for each of the vehicles (which give info not available on the showroom)

December 1922:
[attachment=577]
[attachment=578]

December 1923:
[attachment=579]
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I made it to 1924 so far, but game crashed... Anyway, I took some screens also, here they are, even if I have to start over...

December 1924:
[attachment=581]
[attachment=582]

Here you go, I think I'm done!!!
Sorry for the long long long post Wink

Also, I, for sure, forgot details about this game... Please fell free to ask anything that could help, I'll answer if I can or if I developed any way to do so!

Then, when you'll check on December 1923 profits (top left on the screen), you'll see $ 339M, This is my very best score in the game, but it was not only due to sales, I sold all the brands I did not want to use (as well as I also discoverd that selling them withdraw them from the R&D list, which was quite annoying I find)...

I kept Eisenwerk in order to develop High-luxury car from Germany. That is my next move! Will keep you informed!

Again, best wishes to all for this new year coming!

Aaaaaaaaaagh!

After nearly two hours selling all my shares of companies I did not get at least 51% (Cause I want to try if it helps others to perform if I do not buy their stock), after having designed a Gearbox, a Chassis, a V16 engine (all for racing), after having designed the new racing Burgotti AND the new launch of Eisenwerk Limo (Same components but different body style than the racing one), after having make it trough 1927, and also after having bought Allstone and restarted to produce it and sell their 3 models...

It crashed!!! So many things to do each turn that I even forgot to save... Stupid me!

That is, I found out something weird about takeover (again)... Will post about it in the dedicated thread!

So saaaaaaaad...

After doing a quick edit of my AAR to add in the difficulty i was playing at (as it became relevant later in the thread), i noticed that your thread seems to be missing that as well.
So what difficulty were you playing at?

Also, i noticed you like to like to spend your spare cash to buy shares and buyout other companies.
After my first game this is something i usually try to avoid, as the AI seem to have enough trouble competing without being bought up by the player.
After i left them alone i noticed at least some of them seem to be doing allright by 1910 (selling in the thousands)

One final point, i just did some quick math off your 1924 screenshot, which seems to suggest your profit margin(after production and all costs) on average per vehicle sold is about $800.
That's pretty damn solid profit off such a large volume 70-80k units(over several models).

I wonder how many units you would sell if you cut that price and profit margin down.

As I said on the other thread, I was playing in easy difficulty, as it was my first game. I did not have time to finish it so far.

So, as a matter of facts, I'll be playing in a harder mode next time.

About the stock market, I'd not say "I like" to buy others' companies shares. As I said, I quickly got LOTS of money (as far as I remember, I earned my first mil/month about 1909-1910... That is, I had so much money that I wanted to actually use it...

To precise then, there were two major competitors that were worth my company in those days (Dakrott for sure, and I am not sure about the other). While mine was $ 1 B, theirs were nearly 700-800 K millions... So I could NOT buy their shares, as it would have cost me too much...

Also, about cutting prices and margin down, and as I explained in the original post, the method I used was not to set a high price first. I chose to set it for twice my costs (only production costs) at LEAST. That is, and starting there, I was raising my production capacities to the maximum available for two-three months (to see how high went the sales)

Then, and only then, once I figured out how many cars I could sell at max per month, I raised the price to maximise profits! It usually took me several months to adjust, but my goal was not to loose any sale (compared to the amount of maximum sales I got before). So let's assume I raised 200-300 first to check, and so on, until the price caused drastical fall.

I am not sure if I am clear enough to make my point, but I assume the essential is there...

I will make sure, on my next game, to take multiple screens for all years, in order to check it more precisely!

I forgot to say, about the two competitors (Dakrott and ....?) that their stock price went down anyhow a few years later.

That is to say, I did not cause this! Or at least, not directly... But obviously, my sales did ;-)

Hey,

This time I've been playing on Normal mode!

So far, in 1906, I did not make an IPO! That is, my company is worth $ 60M (Cash) and nearly $ 160M (Bank account).
Not sure how I made it, but for sure it is stock market related as I already bought out a few brands that were merely crushing down to use either their factories or parts.

Will keep you informed, and post some screens later!

(01-13-2014, 08:31 AM)Laurent Tommy Flanagann Wrote: [ -> ]So far, in 1906, I did not make an IPO!

Do you mean that you did not press the IPO button in the stock market screen?
The reason i ask is as im curious what the advantage of not doing that is.

At the moment, i basically do it immediately for two reasons.
- I use the cash to build a large high quality factory in the largest city right before my first vehicle is released.
- You take losses during the initial research stage that reduce your stock price.
So often you gain 3mil from an IPO, then buy back the 50% shares on the market(so you own 100% of the shares) a year later for 100-400k before you start producing vehicles (and making profits).
Then if you need a cash injection later on, you can sell part of your company without risking having less than 50% shares.

I assume you make more money with an IPO later in the game, is that basically the only advantage?

Yes, the IPO basically "launches" your company through the stock market!

That is, doing it early in the game will give you, as you said about $ 3M, but this amount is based on the actual "value" or let's say "performance" of your company! So, doing it in the early stages of the game will give you short amount of money compared to having it done later, when you actually already make profits.

As an example, if I do it now, that I am in 1906 and making between 30K to 100K profits a month, it should raise $ 330M (instead of $ 3M) for a market price about $ 400 (in my game).

But I also assume that your strategy is not that bad also, as it gives you the opportunity to raise funds quickly, and thenm you re-buy your shares. I have not tried that, as I said for my first game, I wanted to let the company worth value raising before doing so!

Thus, now that 1.11 is out, we know that stock split bug has been erased, so basically, yours may be the good strategy to use as it allows you to buy back your shares. In my mind, it would be much more difficult for me to buy back shares than it is for you, because, as I said, my estimated stock price would be $ 400, and that is worth a looooooot more that you buying it back in the early times of the game (Well, as you said, when you still do NOT have made profits - that is at low stock price)

Again, am I clear enough with my english? ;-)

BTW, IPO = Initial Public Offering

Meaning it "opens" or let's say "offers" public (Shareholders actually) to buy parts of your company to raise funds!

That is, it also assumes that you will be paying them (the shareholders) benefits over the shares they get, the dividend. Basically, the more you are successful, the more shareholders get per share, calculated yearly! And gotten once a year (Along with publication of results)

(01-13-2014, 10:09 AM)Laurent Tommy Flanagann Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, the IPO basically "launches" your company through the stock market!

That is, doing it early in the game will give you, as you said about $ 3M, but this amount is based on the actual "value" or let's say "performance" of your company! So, doing it in the early stages of the game will give you short amount of money compared to having it done later, when you actually already make profits.

As an example, if I do it now, that I am in 1906 and making between 30K to 100K profits a month, it should raise $ 330M (instead of $ 3M) for a market price about $ 400 (in my game).

But I also assume that your strategy is not that bad also, as it gives you the opportunity to raise funds quickly, and thenm you re-buy your shares. I have not tried that, as I said for my first game, I wanted to let the company worth value raising before doing so!

Thus, now that 1.11 is out, we know that stock split bug has been erased, so basically, yours may be the good strategy to use as it allows you to buy back your shares. In my mind, it would be much more difficult for me to buy back shares than it is for you, because, as I said, my estimated stock price would be $ 400, and that is worth a looooooot more that you buying it back in the early times of the game (Well, as you said, when you still do NOT have made profits - that is at low stock price)

Again, am I clear enough with my english? ;-)

Yeah, your making perfect sense. We basically agree on this as well as the game mechanics involved.

On the 330mil 5 years later vs the 3mil now i ask myself:
What is more valuable?
Once my company is worth a lot im usually swimming in useless money i cant spend.
But early in the game, i can actually use that money to spend longer designing my vehicles and building better and larger factories.

I tend to think the extra 3mil of starting money is the best option, especially when its combined with the fact you can buyback all the shares later very cheaply

As I said, I did not try your strategy, and as I did not make the IPO yet, I do not know how much it would cost me to buy back the shares.

Also, my strategy differs a lot from yours as I spent many years with only ONE factory, thus, selling on ONE territory (I chose London this time) only!

I noticed that competitors seem to have many many factories built as well as many branches, which is clearly not the case in my strategy! So I do not know what is best...

In real life, thus, it also depends on the strategy you want to assume for your company. But still, there is NOTHING on earth able to raise as much money as an IPO for a company. Let's assume you want to develop yourself drastically, then you may use an IPO. But let's say you are running a small "family" company, there is no need to do so.

Also, what you should consider is that having shareholders gives you less "control" over your company. Let's say you are running a company with 100 shares. If I buy one, then my "voice" would count for one per cent of all the decisions you make. That is, if someone has 50% of shares +1 , he is the one that decides, not you anymore. But that is only an example, we are talking about companies that are usually worth Millions, or tens of millions dollars...

And, as a matter of facts, it is actually much more difficult that only that! But basically, the point is there...

Also, I almost forgot, but when you are on the stock market, the company profits not only are for the company to use anymore, as, as I said before, you have to distribute your dividend to the shareholders...

Oh, and yeah, when I say public, it means people like you and I as well as anyone! You "inject" money or give, to the company in exchange for later dividends...

(01-13-2014, 10:32 AM)Laurent Tommy Flanagann Wrote: [ -> ]Also, my strategy differs a lot from yours as I spent many years with only ONE factory, thus, selling on ONE territory (I chose London this time) only!

Actually i do this as well.
In my UK games for example, right at game start, i IPO then immediately demolish my factory and branches(reduces costs, and the factory is crap anyway)
Then i build a new good factory in London set to be built right before my first vehicle is designed. London is also where im selling so no transportation costs.
Once my vehicle is developed, i build a new (good) branch in London and sell it there.

(01-13-2014, 10:32 AM)Laurent Tommy Flanagann Wrote: [ -> ]Also, what you should consider is that having shareholders gives you less "control" over your company. Let's say you are running a company with 100 shares. If I buy one, then my "voice" would count for one per cent of all the decisions you make. That is, if someone has 50% of shares +1 , he is the one that decides, not you anymore. But that is only an example, we are talking about companies that are usually worth Millions, or tens of millions dollars...

And, as a matter of facts, it is actually much more difficult that only that! But basically, the point is there...

Also, I almost forgot, but when you are on the stock market, the company profits not only are for the company to use anymore, as, as I said before, you have to distribute your benefits to the shareholders...

I haven't seen any requirement to distribute the benefits to shareholders in Gearcity, beyond role-playing a CEO of a company.
In Gearcity, i dont think the shareholders get anything beyond the takeover mechanics mentioned and making money off your rising stock prices. ( i mean they can buy them cheap then sell them when they get expensive)
If im wrong on that you can correct me, im open to it.

On the control point:
I am totally unconcerned about losing control of my company, as i said, i IPO then buy back the shares when they are at a low price.
So when i have 100% shares, i am 100% in control.

Just to clarify.
Im not telling you to use the strategy or insulting your strategy. As far as i know we are just discussing it.

Oh, I don't know if my tone is uncorrect, but there was no offense at all! I only speak english the way I speak French, sorry about that!

That is, I did not want to let you assume you said something wrong, because you did not! I took no offense, I only tried to explain you the "how it works in real life" thing, that's all!

And you're right, I think there is no dividend point, here, in Gearcity. That being said, there would be no point in explaining only half of how it works...

Also, I did not assume at all that my strategy is the best or whatsoever... I am just trying to help here!

That is, I think we agree on both sides ;-)

About the control, as I said, it is much more difficult than just that, but that is exactly why I asked Eric about the stock split that let me no other option than loosing control (Again, I think it is not managed in the game, but still, this is how it runs)

Again, sorry if the tone is uncorrect, it is clearly not my behavior todo so!

(01-13-2014, 10:53 AM)Laurent Tommy Flanagann Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, I don't know if my tone is uncorrect, but there was no offense at all! I only speak english the way I speak French, sorry about that!

That is, I did not want to let you assume you said something wrong, because you did not! I took no offense, I only tried to explain you the "how it works in real life" thing, that's all!

And you're right, I think there is no benefit point, here, in Gearcity. That being said, there would be no point in explaining only half of how it works...

Also, I did not assume at all that my strategy is the best or whatsoever... I am just trying to help here!

That is, I think we agree on both sides ;-)

About the control, as I said, it is much more difficult than just that, but that is exactly why I asked Eric about the stock split that let me no other option than loosing control (Again, I think it is not managed in the game, but still, this is how it runs)

Again, sorry if the tone is uncorrect, it is clearly not my behavior todo so!

Your tone is fine, there isn't anything wrong with what you were saying and you didn't sound offended.
I just like to clarify things even to native english speakers in long discussions.

I wonder if Eric would be interested in implementing any of the things you mentioned.
I think some of the simpler parts of having shareholders could be implemented into the game.
Especially having some kind of responsibility to your shareholders as you mentioned.
I dont know enough about it to comment really, but i like the idea of it.
Maybe something similar to the current "Union Head" and strikes interactions you can have?

At the least, i would find it entertaining getting a angry message from a representative of the shareholders asking why im making such a mess of things Smile

(01-13-2014, 11:03 AM)Arakash Wrote: [ -> ]Your tone is fine, there isn't anything wrong with what you were saying and you didn't sound offended.
I just like to clarify things even to native english speakers in long discussions.

I wonder if Eric would be interested in implementing any of the things you mentioned.
I think some of the simpler parts of having shareholders could be implemented into the game.
Especially having some kind of responsibility to your shareholders as you mentioned.
I dont know enough about it to comment really, but i like the idea of it.
Maybe something similar to the current "Union Head" and strikes interactions you can have?

At the least, i would find it entertaining getting a angry message from a representative of the shareholders asking why im making such a mess of things .

That would be so cool, yeah, I agree!

At least, you could be fired by the shareholders if the company results are not good, or whatever! That could add realism within the game, for sure!

In the same spirit, it would be great to possess half + 1 shares of any company, and then, to decide YOU are the one in charge of running it (As for Carlos Ghosn, former CEO of Renault, now CEO of BOTH Renault and Nissan, after Renault bought 50%+1 shares of Nissan), or to change the CEO in case the company does not perform well enough.

As a matter of facts, you can have control over a company in the game, but I think it does not affect neither the change of the board nor taking decisions for it, nor getting money from dividends...

I guess this is something Eric should DEFINITELY be working on in a laaaaaaaaater version, as he does not have any life already biggrin

But still, the mecanism is here already, I think he only needs time to adjust everything...

Must be soooo hard (and well, obviously almost lifetime long) to make this game that realistic I guess...

(Yaaaaaay, Got sergeant!!!)

Right now I'm focusing on fixing the stock evaluations and IPO prices. There should be no way to get 300million from an IPO until the late 70s! 1.12 should break up the easy money from IPOs. Wink

Dividend system is implemented in the database, just need to make a gui and AI code for it. Board take over of the company is also something I will be adding in the future. As Laurent pointed out neither of these are anywhere near priority.