Visual Entertainment and Technologies Forum

Seeing as tutorials are coming up in the next version, i was wondering what format people prefer their tutorials in or games where they've seen types of tutorials they can remember liking.
The tutorials are going to be a good thing for the game imo, especially for new players regardless of what format they are in, but i thought it was an interesting discussion anyway.

My understanding is that in the next version we will be getting a bunch of non-interactive tutorial videos which will open up outside of Gearcity and a manual which will be able to be opened ingame.

Ill start by saying that ive seen tutorials in a bunch of different games, in formats ranging from a series of Forum posts by a developer, printable ones in manual, to tutorial videos ingame and fully interactive tutorials ingame.
My preference is for fully interactive tutorials, where you are pointed towards things inside the game's interface/GUI, though a series of small scenarios. I dont think they have to be voiced, but i consider being pointed to various aspects of the interface and instructed with text onscreen to be ideal.
I realize that format can take a lot of time/effort, so i dont mind having the proposed tutorial videos as a compromise, as ive seen that work well in several games.

A genre relevant example is the Automation Game, which has tutorial videos which pop up when you click on a button for the first time when your designing.
Ive seen them in several other games. I was playing one just today that allows you to access them through its launcher application (which you access the game through), which then opens up tutorial videos outside the game for you to watch.
In both cases i think these videos are useful to the player.

Id be interested to hear if anyone wants to share their ideal or their preference for tutorials.

Logistically an interactive tutorial is not possible. I looked into it and unless I want rewrite large chunks of the game, it's not going to happen.

Integrating the video into the game would be possible and may occur at a future date. As of now I think it's a waste of a week or two of time to do it.

We do have audio tutorials, which are psudeo-interactive. In that they do not restrict you from playing while they are playing.

The video tutorials automatically minimize the game, play the video then restores the game, the external program is very tiny. It's not like we're launching windows media player...

The longest video I believe is 2 minutes long. They're very simple and straight forward and can be accessed anytime without damaging the game.


That being said, they're not polished. The production quality is crap. But it works as a functional placeholder until I get fruluna to record the dialog with professional equipment.

(02-24-2014, 11:22 AM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]Logistically an interactive tutorial is not possible. I looked into it and unless I want rewrite large chunks of the game, it's not going to happen.

Integrating the video into the game would be possible and may occur at a future date. As of now I don't think it's a good waste of a week or two of time to do it.

We do have audio tutorials, which are psudeo-interactive. In that they do not restrict you from playing while they are playing.

The video tutorials automatically minimize the game, play the video then restores the game, the external program is very tiny. It's not like we're launching windows media player...

The longest video I believe is 2 minutes long. They're very simple and straight forward and can be accessed anytime without damaging the game.

Thanks for the clarification on that, in my original post i really didnt have the information to go in depth into it.
Practical considerations definitely rule on indie games like this one, but i figured i may as well talk about my experience and ask other people what their preferences were.
As i said in my original post, whatever the format, im sure they are going to help new and old players figure out the game.

(02-24-2014, 11:22 AM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]That being said, they're not polished. The production quality is crap. But it works as a functional placeholder until I get fruluna to record the dialog with professional equipment.

Im looking forward to seeing them
The ones i was going through before posting were not studio quality either, they looked like they were done through some video editing of game footage (zooms, highlights etc.) with a voiceover.
I suppose until we all see it we wont know if we agree with you on that

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember the last time I used a tutorial. I tend to find they just annoy me lol

Having said that, I intend to give Erics new tutorials a burl in the interest of offering (hopefully) constructive feedback =)

(02-24-2014, 03:24 PM)Frankschtaldt Wrote: [ -> ]To be perfectly honest, I can't remember the last time I used a tutorial. I tend to find they just annoy me lol

Having said that, I intend to give Erics new tutorials a burl in the interest of offering (hopefully) constructive feedback =)

I dont know what types of games you play or how many of them you play, but if you dont use tutorials, how do you manage to learn to play a game with any degree of complexity?
For simple games i might be able to understand how you could just muddle through with trial and error, but i dont know how you could jump into a strategy game for instance, without a tutorial.
I suppose you could read the manual or other guides/wiki etc. and just use them as a basis.

Again, i think it depends on what games you play. I think you could get through most RPGs and clickfest RTS without them, as well as FPS of course, but im thinking of how you would manage with a Paradox game, for instance.

I mostly play RPGs, strategy and simulation. I don't play and RTS or FPS at all (except for the odd LAN with my mates).

I enjoy the challenge of trying to work it out myself. Half the fun for me is playing short games with the specific goal of trying to work out the details of a certain mechanic (like the one I did for the freight thread).
When I do get stumped and there is something I can't work out I tend to turn to forums or wikis rather than tutorials. I enjoy gathering information much more than having it fed to me.

(02-24-2014, 10:19 PM)Frankschtaldt Wrote: [ -> ]I mostly play RPGs, strategy and simulation. I don't play and RTS or FPS at all (except for the odd LAN with my mates).

I enjoy the challenge of trying to work it out myself. Half the fun for me is playing short games with the specific goal of trying to work out the details of a certain mechanic (like the one I did for the freight thread).
When I do get stumped and there is something I can't work out I tend to turn to forums or wikis rather than tutorials. I enjoy gathering information much more than having it fed to me.

Fair enough.

Personally i want to spend my time playing the game and doing things, everything from strategy to creative/learning things, within the actual game engine, rather than spending time fighting with it trying to figure it out.
This is probably because of my gaming experience with Wargames. Many of these are literally impossible to play without a full read of the manual and documentation. So ive played enough of them to really appreciate the value of good documentation/tutorials.

This is why i really push for good documentation/tutorials in every game i discuss.
I also think im on good game design grounds when looking/asking for tutorials and documentation. It decreases the learning curve that comes with complex games like these. That learning curve can often be a serious barrier to a lot of players.

(02-24-2014, 10:40 PM)Arakash Wrote: [ -> ]This is why i really push for good documentation/tutorials in every game i discuss.
I also think im on good game design grounds when looking/asking for tutorials and documentation. It decreases the learning curve that comes with complex games like these. That learning curve can often be a serious barrier to a lot of players.

Dude, I completely agree with you.
If you read my original post again you'll see that I never said there shouldn't be tutorials, only that I don't use them.
In fact, I said that I will be going against my usual MO and using Erics tutorials so that I can offer feedback. That's because I recognise that they are an important part of good game development and that my dislike of them is rather unusual. =)

Personally I never use tutorials unless the game is absolutely obscure to me. Like nethack or dwarf fortress... Then again I love to lose, so I am a bit weird I guess.

(02-24-2014, 11:23 PM)Frankschtaldt Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, I completely agree with you.
If you read my original post again you'll see that I never said there shouldn't be tutorials, only that I don't use them.
In fact, I said that I will be going against my usual MO and using Erics tutorials so that I can offer feedback. That's because I recognise that they are an important part of good game development and that my dislike of them is rather unusual. =)

Yep, i realised that too
I didn't think you were arguing against them, i just thought it would be a good idea for me to back up my appreciation for tutorials with some discussion on the ideas behind designing games, rather than just my own personal opinion.
As you may already know, i go out of my way to provide examples for most of my posts that was more of the same

In retrospect, i suppose it would've been more appropriate to include that in my OP rather than a follow up post, so sorry about that.

(02-24-2014, 11:46 PM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I never use tutorials unless the game is absolutely obscure to me. Like nethack or dwarf fortress... Then again I love to lose, so I am a bit weird I guess.

Hmm.. It looks like you and Frankschtaldt have this opinion in common

On the win/lose thing, which you brought up.
If i have full understanding of what im doing wrong, what i can do to fix it and how i can improve, then im happy to lose a game. In the opposite scenario, it really bothers me.
So for me, its less about winning or losing, its more important to get good feedback from the game and explanation beforehand on what is happening, so i can figure out what im doing wrong and hopefully improve.

Using Crusader Kings 2 as an example, whenever im losing the game, i can usually figure out exactly what is happening and i can think of many ways i can improve my game and strategy to avoid it in the future.
Usually it is because i overlooked an alliance/family relation, underestimated my opponent(not checking all their holdings) or just got really overconfident. The AI in that game loves to beat you with a stick whenever you look even slightly weak, so they can really punish you for overconfidence.