Visual Entertainment and Technologies Forum

We've already talked a bit about Grand Prix Manager 3, should be the racing part.....But to avoid the launch date to be postponed into 2021, here's some thoughts :

• The Cars
  Basicly you pull the selected cars attributes into the season.
  On top of that, you should be able to have some tuning/research/improvement done to the car. (Note, whatever you do to the car, stays in the racing part. Nothing gets transferred back to the main game at this point).
  This could improve various attributes of the car, you brought in – so the base values gets increased/decreased based on your choices. (Improved aerodynamics, may increase weight etc.).
  These enhanced attributes will be your racecars attributes.
  
• The Drivers
  You should be able to hire a driver (or several, if you have more cars in a team).
  To keep it simplified, I think you could narrow it down to 2 attributes. (You may want to expand it, to be more detailed).
  Quickness and Risk taking.
  Quickness should affect laptimes (and thereby race position), while risk-taking should affect chance of completing the race.
  The 2 attributes should be linked, as the faster drivers should have a bigger risk of not completing.
  
• The Race
  You have the cars enhanced performance attributes (Handling, power etc.) + drivers quickness = laptimes (end position)
  The drivers risk-taking + braking attribute = risk of crashing.
  The cars quality attribute + dependability attribute = risk of not finishing.
  On top of that, there should be some randomness factor, that means you won’t win 100% of the time, even if you have the best driver & car.
  If you want to add management tools, you could have different messages to the driver. (Increase pace = more fuel consumption + higher risk) etc. that you'd be able to give out during the race.
  
• The Money
  The budget you set with the slider (whether you choose detailed racing or not), should be the same.
  In detailed racing, you just get to decide, how it’s spend, while the automatic racing should spread it evenly between the different attributes of the car + a driver.
  Even with a maximum budget, it shouldn’t be possible to improve everything on the car, and hire a top driver.
  
• The Benefits
  What should be comming out of the racing, should be image (depending on how well you’re doing) and research skills.
  The research skills could be in the form of a rebate on improving existing components, reduced development time of newer components or reduced number of components you have to develop to increase skill.
  If you want to use it a bit more detailed, you could allocate different attributes to different components, so the more you improve certain attributes, the more skill you get send back to the game for a specific component..
  

It could be presented in different ways.
I think the simplest, would be a list with lap times, and accumulated racetime per car. (1st place on top etc.) so you could see how far you're in front, or behind. the value could change for each lap. (As the years go by, the theme and timetable could be changed).
this will remove the need for a graphical representation of racetracks, and any animation required for car positions on the track.
If the same "script" is repeated lap after lap, with updated attributes (messages to the driver, fuel consumed etc.) each lap and the randomfactor in it, it should make for a race.

(02-25-2014, 02:15 PM)Sarchez Wrote: [ -> ]Arakash Edit: Edited down for space, read up to see the original post.

Nice post.
Ill first throw in a disclaimer that i know little to nothing of how racing works in the real world, so im hoping to limit my comments to the game mechanics suggested (hopefully)

Ill make comments on the driver, the calculation of laps and the benefits.

I can first make a bunch of comments on the driver system suggested, as ive seen quite a number of personnel management systems in a variety of games.
If we stuck with your suggested attributes, i would replace Risk-taking with Aggressiveness. Ive seen that before in other games, and i think its a better and more general word to use that covers what your thinking of.
Im not a huge fan of the word Quickness, though i understand the concept you were aiming for here. Im not sure what to replace it with in this case.

If i was to choose two attributes to represent the drivers, i would probably generalise it to something like:
Talent -Which would have a large effect on times and how well the driver can utilize the vehicle
Consistency - Reduces the chances of accidents and poor performances

These are quite abstract, but im trying to be generalized and fairly simple.
If you wanted to go the other direction, you could go as in depth as you wanted to, as some games like Football Manager do with 20-30 attributes (many hidden), but i think we are looking for something much more simple here.

Onto the general lap system proposed.
First, having the laps individually calculated sounds like something that would put a fair amount of load on the game. This is purely an assumption on my part, but i think it could be a problem.
Imagine, once the mods come in, having 10-20 racing series, where each lap (lets say 20-30 laps each) is calculated individually when the turn button is pressed. So 200-600 lap calculations, using the lap and series numbers i guessed there.

Second, im not really sure we need to calculate out each individual lap anyway. Just have the game make a calculation, based on the statistics provided by the system you suggested (driver, vehicle etc) about who wins.
Its probably going to give similar results to calculating each lap anyway, with less hassle. It may be my ignorance, but im not seeing the benefits of having laps calculated individually.

Finally on the Benefits
This is the part i really like, and would imo, add a depth to the research.
I think i mentioned it already on IRC anyway, but i really like the idea of having racing expenditure feed back into your research in some way.
It would have to be balanced ofc, but i like the extra motivation to get involved in racing and develop racing teams/cars.

(02-26-2014, 06:04 AM)Arakash Wrote: [ -> ]Onto the general lap system proposed.
First, having the laps individually calculated sounds like something that would put a fair amount of load on the game. This is purely an assumption on my part, but i think it could be a problem.
Imagine, once the mods come in, having 10-20 racing series, where each lap (lets say 20-30 laps each) is calculated individually when the turn button is pressed. So 200-600 lap calculations, using the lap and series numbers i guessed there.

Second, im not really sure we need to calculate out each individual lap anyway. Just have the game make a calculation, based on the statistics provided by the system you suggested (driver, vehicle etc) about who wins.
Its probably going to give similar results to calculating each lap anyway, with less hassle. It may be my ignorance, but im not seeing the benefits of having laps calculated individually.

To sum up my thoughts about the driver and attributes; it doesn't matter a whole lot (imo) if there is 2 or 10 attributes. My main point was, there has to be a balance risk vs. reward. So they faster a driver is, there should be a risk of him/her crashing the car (and thereby eating out a chunk of the budget!.)
I think there should be very few attributes for a driver, as this is not really the main purpose of GearCity.


The reason I proposed the lap system as above, and any calculations per lap etc. was to make it a minigame within the game. (And no it definately shouldn't run in real-time)
I don't expect anyone to press F12 each lap, on the contrary the laps should be running in a loop, and you should press some button to pause it for giving orders etc. Those orders would then be in effect, from the next lap. (modifiers changed for the next loop.)

It will take more time to complete a race, that's why I wanted it to be optional.
I get your point about being in 10 different race series though, but wouldn't that sort itself out ? If you want to do the detailed racing in all of them - then it's because it's important for your company (or because you enjoy it). If you don't want to, you can have 9 of them on automatic (calculated as a race, instead of per lap), the last one detailed. Or if you're really bored with it, you can have them all on automatic and still get benefits from it. (Like today).
Seeing that it will take more time and effort, it should also give you bigger benefits. (more skill, since you're involved)

I don't see much point in adding drivers etc. if you just use it to make a distribution of funds once per race series, and then leave it. Then the system we have now, is sufficient. (imo).

We've implemented driver and team focuses instead of a fully detailed driver system. This was mainly to avoid having another fully detailed game inside the game. Thus distracting from the main purpose of the project.

Lap times will probably not be implemented. The game sucks up too much turn times as it is.

Racing should effect both image and skills as well...

So I'm marking this thread as implemented. Even though we didn't do everything as detailed as you suggested.

So much for my attempt, to sneak Grand Prix Manager 3 in there....

I definately like the changes you have done to racing. It's much more a part of the game now, and it gives you some choices.
Now....how to avoid bankruptcy while trying to win all the series.... :-)

(11-12-2014, 10:55 AM)Sarchez Wrote: [ -> ]So much for my attempt, to sneak Grand Prix Manager 3 in there....

Maybe if we make a sim for game #3. But it won't be Grand Prix... it'll be all forms of racing! You have to work your way up you know!

I must admit that the new racing part is much better !
but i think there should be more of a bonus in the car selling area if you're a good racing team.
think of the sales the mclaren team gave Mercedes, or the williams team gave renault in the 90s.
also prestige for winning races should be much grater than they seem to be at the mkment.
i won the gear city cup race 3 years running with same car but sales kept falling.