Visual Entertainment and Technologies Forum

Hello everyone.

I came here from the Automation website. I thought the game was interesting so I've been following the website lately and I downloaded the beta yesterday. Since I can't be arsed with a single thread for every suggestion/bug I have found I'm creating this thread which I think is the correct way to do it.

First of all though, a little bit of background to understand a bit better what I'm on about. I am a monumental car bore and the economic/business part while being also part of the game is not my main focus. Having said that, let's move on.

I have played the game two or three times (that means I have started from scratch this amount of times) and I have found the following bugs:

• The dimensions seem to be off. In SI units (I'm European) the cars are always comically short and preposterously wide. Like 3 and 6 metres respectively, which doesn't make any sense at all. In inches I think that the measurements are right, but not being familiar with those units I'm not sure.
  
• Sometimes when you click on the safebox and want to go for an IPO the game crashes. This has only happened to me once.
  
• It's seems quite difficult to create a high performance car. I desgined a supercharged V12 Coupé which had 175bhp and could hit 123mph, and performance was still regarded as poor. There were not many cars which could do over 120mph in the 20's.
  

Those are the ones that I can think of now.

As for suggestions, again after having played the game, I have the following:

• I would lock newer technologies in early cars, or make them costly. For isntance a six speed gearbox in a car from 1900 doesn't look very realistic and neither does a V6 engine (the first manufacturer to mass produce them was Lancia in 1950).
  
• Performance figures seem a bit optismistic in some cases, like cars in the early days doing 0-60mph in 6 seconds or less. Same can be said about about weight figures, a supercharged V12 can't be close to 100kg and neither can its frame be below that figure.
  
• I think you should be able to update certain parts of your current production cars without actually having to design a whole new vehicle; like for instance a new body or a new engine. This way versions of the same model should be able to be created more easily.
  
• The business managing part also seems overtly complex to me, like hiring people and setting wages. If I want to make a small factory for high-end luxury automobiles I don't need to have as many people employed as a mass-production economy car manufacturer, yet you also get the same "Understaffed *whatever*" messages. Result? You end up with a large stock of unsaleable, massively expensive luxury cars.
  
• Following previous suggestion, I would also be a good idea to set not only a cost-per-unit, but also a projected price (or know what prices your rivals are selling similar cars, I personally couldn't find it anywhere). This way you know if you are selling your cars at more or less the right prices. Maybe it owuld be a good idea to include a more engineering based-mode and another more buisness-based mode which limited opposed functions in each mode.
  
• Also, the car/part designer sliders are a bit sui generis. I mean you set everything to max and you seem to be getting the perfect car, but in reality it's not as easy. A Rolls-Royce and a Ferrari can both be great cars, but the Rolls-Royce does not have the handling of the Ferrari and the Ferrari does not have the comfort of the Rolls-Royce. It's impossible to create a car with perfect ride and handling, because they are opposed characteristics and you have to take a compromise; i.e. can't have both.
  

Again, that's all I can think of, now. I have only been able to turn a monthly profit once, but that may not be the game's fault, just me that I'm useless at business side of cars!

Sorry for the long post.

Cheers!

A very nice, long post. I've broken it down into chunks so my replied are more readable.

(03-30-2013, 02:35 PM)Ferrer Wrote: [ -> ]The dimensions seem to be off. In SI units (I'm European) the cars are always comically short and preposterously wide. Like 3 and 6 metres respectively, which doesn't make any sense at all. In inches I think that the measurements are right, but not being familiar with those units I'm not sure.

Yes, there is a problem with metric unit conversions, and a lot of the specs need tweaked. It's in my bug list, but near the bottom as I work out breaking bugs.

Quote:[Sometimes when you click on the safebox and want to go for an IPO the game crashes. This has only happened to me once.

You wouldn't happen to have the logfile.log from this game would you?

Quote:It's seems quite difficult to create a high performance car. I desgined a supercharged V12 Coupé which had 175bhp and could hit 123mph, and performance was still regarded as poor. There were not many cars which could do over 120mph in the 20's.

Right now the ratings aren't attached to the real world specs. I'll be fixing this soon as I get racing in.

Quote:I would lock newer technologies in early cars, or make them costly. For isntance a six speed gearbox in a car from 1900 doesn't look very realistic and neither does a V6 engine (the first manufacturer to mass produce them was Lancia in 1950).

I plan on having things that are technically feasible but rare be limited by "Design Image" ratings which the user does not see. Using your example, a V6 engine isnt' common until 1950, but they do exist and you could still make one if your design image is high enough.

Quote:Performance figures seem a bit optismistic in some cases, like cars in the early days doing 0-60mph in 6 seconds or less. Same can be said about about weight figures, a supercharged V12 can't be close to 100kg and neither can its frame be below that figure.

Weight figures are broken, and as such performance figures are broken.

Quote:I think you should be able to update certain parts of your current production cars without actually having to design a whole new vehicle; like for instance a new body or a new engine. This way versions of the same model should be able to be created more easily.

This is coming with our trim system. You can tweak the old design (without changing parts) under modify in the design room.

Quote:The business managing part also seems overtly complex to me, like hiring people and setting wages. If I want to make a small factory for high-end luxury automobiles I don't need to have as many people employed as a mass-production economy car manufacturer, yet you also get the same "Understaffed *whatever*" messages. Result? You end up with a large stock of unsaleable, massively expensive luxury cars.

That bug is also on my list, "Understaffed Factory" will only fire if you have 0 employees at a production line.

The game needs some testing with limited production car building. I haven't had the chance to test and tweak it. It should become more viable after I try the new buying system and update the factory/branch building stuff.

Quote:Following previous suggestion, I would also be a good idea to set not only a cost-per-unit, but also a projected price (or know what prices your rivals are selling similar cars, I personally couldn't find it anywhere). This way you know if you are selling your cars at more or less the right prices. Maybe it owuld be a good idea to include a more engineering based-mode and another more buisness-based mode which limited opposed functions in each mode.

You'll be able to see AI prices, world map, and vehicle specs in one of the upcoming patches.

The second part of the question I didn't really understand. Care to expand it?

Quote:Also, the car/part designer sliders are a bit sui generis. I mean you set everything to max and you seem to be getting the perfect car, but in reality it's not as easy. A Rolls-Royce and a Ferrari can both be great cars, but the Rolls-Royce does not have the handling of the Ferrari and the Ferrari does not have the comfort of the Rolls-Royce. It's impossible to create a car with perfect ride and handling, because they are opposed characteristics and you have to take a compromise; i.e. can't have both.

Nor do they have both. Sliders are relevant to the type of car you're building. High Comfort on a Luxury Sedan is not the same as High Comfort on a Supercar. The buyer looking for comfort is going to buy a Rolls, not a Ferrari. But if that buyer is in the market for a Supercar and Performance, Handling, Price, Image, and Marketing is the same between a Lotus Evora and an Alfa Romeo 4C. The Durability of the Lotus may put it over the edge. That's not to say Evora with its high Durability is more durable than a compact car. It says for a Supercar it's very durable.

(Couldn't think of any comfortable supercars, all the one's i've been in have been... barebones. And only the gearbox and engine of the Evora is durable, the coachwork is a bit crappy. )

The specs per vehicle type do need tweaked. If I'm not mistaken you can make a luxury sedan have very similar specs (minus wind resistance stuff) as a sports car.



Anyway, thanks for the response. The vehicle part of the game does need some work. And I'll be getting to it once I iron out some of the gameplay bugs and add in some missing features that really need to be added. We'll never get up to Automation level of details, nor do I really want a game that detailed on the engineering side. I did that sort of stuff for a few years, feels too much like the job I quit!

(03-30-2013, 03:58 PM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Following previous suggestion, I would also be a good idea to set not only a cost-per-unit, but also a projected price (or know what prices your rivals are selling similar cars, I personally couldn't find it anywhere). This way you know if you are selling your cars at more or less the right prices. Maybe it owuld be a good idea to include a more engineering based-mode and another more buisness-based mode which limited opposed functions in each mode.

You'll be able to see AI prices, world map, and vehicle specs in one of the upcoming patches.

The second part of the question I didn't really understand. Care to expand it?

What I meant is that sometimes people prefer to focus on the engineering side of the company and do not care much about the business part (or viceversa). I would be nice if there was a mode that could somewhat automate the side of the company which you are not interested in.

I don't know if it's clearer now.

(03-30-2013, 03:58 PM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, thanks for the response. The vehicle part of the game does need some work. And I'll be getting to it once I iron out some of the gameplay bugs and add in some missing features that really need to be added. We'll never get up to Automation level of details, nor do I really want a game that detailed on the engineering side. I did that sort of stuff for a few years, feels too much like the job I quit!

Oh I agree, I do not want the level pedantic engineering there's in Automation here, we have automation for that. But since this is a car game specific car-related stuff could be nice.

By the way, I've thought of more thinks, mostly related to designing bodies.

• Sometimes the game freezes when adding accessories. It doesn't crash but it doesn't let you add more things to your car.
  
• It would be nice if the actual design affected the real world specs other than styling (like lower car = better aerodynamics).
  
• Also, sometimes adding accessories is a bit cumbersome. Some standard mounting points would be helpful as guides.
  
• By the way longer/more elaborate reviews in the press and comparisons to rival cars would be nice. How do, those affect sales/reputation/image by the way?
  

All in all though, looks interesting. I looking forward to showrooms, racing and the lot. Keep up the good work!

---

Nearly forgot.

(03-30-2013, 03:58 PM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:[Sometimes when you click on the safebox and want to go for an IPO the game crashes. This has only happened to me once.

You wouldn't happen to have the logfile.log from this game would you?

I'm not good with technology and computers, how do I do that?

If it serves, it happened on a game where I decided to not design/produce cars until late 1919, because if I did I kept going bankrupt in 1905 or so, and I wanted to see what was available later on.

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(03-30-2013, 03:58 PM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Also, the car/part designer sliders are a bit sui generis. I mean you set everything to max and you seem to be getting the perfect car, but in reality it's not as easy. A Rolls-Royce and a Ferrari can both be great cars, but the Rolls-Royce does not have the handling of the Ferrari and the Ferrari does not have the comfort of the Rolls-Royce. It's impossible to create a car with perfect ride and handling, because they are opposed characteristics and you have to take a compromise; i.e. can't have both.

Nor do they have both. Sliders are relevant to the type of car you're building. High Comfort on a Luxury Sedan is not the same as High Comfort on a Supercar. The buyer looking for comfort is going to buy a Rolls, not a Ferrari. But if that buyer is in the market for a Supercar and Performance, Handling, Price, Image, and Marketing is the same between a Lotus Evora and an Alfa Romeo 4C. The Durability of the Lotus may put it over the edge. That's not to say Evora with its high Durability is more durable than a compact car. It says for a Supercar it's very durable.

(Couldn't think of any comfortable supercars, all the one's i've been in have been... barebones. And only the gearbox and engine of the Evora is durable, the coachwork is a bit crappy. )

I understand that, it just that in the game it's hard to see the difference. It's a bit of an all or nothing, regardless of what type of car you choose and the scores out of 100 do not look very clear to me.

But maybe I'm nitpcking here.

I really like both "Automation" and "Gear City" (as concept and Beta), and I have bought the first...

I think that every comment/report that we can give to this company will make Gear City better, so I think your comments are important.

I want only to say that the "slider system" is a little strange to understand, it not work so plain as other same game (also Automations)...
I haven't still understand it so well to give any other explanations, but I think it will be also quite "random" and it will be, probably, modified a little...

(03-30-2013, 04:47 PM)Ferrer Wrote: [ -> ]What I meant is that sometimes people prefer to focus on the engineering side of the company and do not care much about the business part (or viceversa). I would be nice if there was a mode that could somewhat automate the side of the company which you are not interested in.

I don't know if it's clearer now.

I understand now.

If the contracting system works as I envision it. (And don't quote me on this) then you should be able to design cars and sell those designs as well take in design request much like a design firm such as Zagato would. The underlaying system there, dunno how well that will work though.

Quote:

• Sometimes the game freezes when adding accessories. It doesn't crash but it doesn't let you add more things to your car.
  
• It would be nice if the actual design affected the real world specs other than styling (like lower car = better aerodynamics).
  
• Also, sometimes adding accessories is a bit cumbersome. Some standard mounting points would be helpful as guides.
  
• By the way longer/more elaborate reviews in the press and comparisons to rival cars would be nice. How do, those affect sales/reputation/image by the way?
  

All in all though, looks interesting. I looking forward to showrooms, racing and the lot. Keep up the good work!

Replies in the order of your list:
-This bug has been fixed, it'll be in the next patch.
-It actually does, we make a rough estimate of the aerodynamic drag coefficient of the body, and use that to tweak the fuel economy, top speed, and acceleration. As I said before the system needs tweaking for better numbers, but its' all there.
-Sadly I don't think this will be possible for the same reason we can't drive the vehicle. The current cars are not boned thus there are no-predefined points on the vehicle. IF we ever make a GearCity II: Revenge of the Lug Nut, we'll make sure all the cars are boned and we'll do this
-Eventually I'll have someone with better english skills than my self go through and expand the review vocabulary. As of right now it doesn't effect the Image, because the image system is turned off. I'll re-enable it sometime during beta. The press is pretty much based off your ratings, the image system is a combination of factors that rise and fall based on your performance compared to the AI and the quality of your designs for a particular niche.

Quote:I understand that, it just that in the game it's hard to see the difference. It's a bit of an all or nothing, regardless of what type of car you choose and the scores out of 100 do not look very clear to me.

But maybe I'm nitpcking here.

Is the problem that you view the values out of 100 for all cars, and not just for a car type? If you see a pickup truck with a 90/100 cargo rating and a supercar with a 90/100 cargo rating you think they both have the same cargo? You're actually comparing apples and oranges!

I could see this being a problem. Perhaps I should make the values for all vehicles but put a maximum limit on each type, Example sedans can only have a max value of 70 in performance, and a supercar 100... That would make it easier to compare between cartypes BUT harder to compare between same type vehicles.

Or would you rather have a more real world statistic for the values? No matter what under the hood they'll be represented by values out of 100. Such a system would just make it harder to see the difference between a 1975 car and a 1995 car. When pretty much all specs are equal but the 90s car is a better car than a 70s car.

And don't worry about nitpicking, we both have the same goal, to make/have a good game. Just don't get depressed if I fight back on somethings.


to find your logfile.log go into your My Documents folder, then go to VENT folder, GearCity folder, and it's right there, upload that file after you crash in the game. (The file will erase the next time you start the game)

Thanks again!

(03-30-2013, 07:35 PM)Corwin86 Wrote: [ -> ]I really like both "Automation" and "Gear City" (as concept and Beta), and I have bought the first...

I think that every comment/report that we can give to this company will make Gear City better, so I think your comments are important.

I want only to say that the "slider system" is a little strange to understand, it not work so plain as other same game (also Automations)...
I haven't still understand it so well to give any other explanations, but I think it will be also quite "random" and it will be, probably, modified a little...

I've bought Automation too, and I like a lot. It's just that sometimes the pedanticness of the engineering in Automation is a bit too much for me; you know titanium this and unobtanium that. Sometimes while desinging an engine for, say, sports saloon I end up going for max everything and it ends up costing more than supercar's engine!

I was looking into this a sort of Automation with the engineering side toned down a little.

(03-30-2013, 11:16 PM)Eric.B Wrote: [ -> ]to find your logfile.log go into your My Documents folder, then go to VENT folder, GearCity folder, and it's right there, upload that file after you crash in the game. (The file will erase the next time you start the game)

Thanks again!

I tried doing what you said but I get the following message.

"Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type."

HALP!

Zip the file before attach it, or I think it could be this

Yeah, I think Automation and Gear City can co-exist, because they are quite different.
In fact, I think you need to take one-two hour for yourself only to design a motor, in Automation (but it's the good of the game) cool

Now it works!

Thank you Corwin.

Quote:I tried doing what you said but I get the following message.

"Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type."

HALP!

Weird, you could zip up the files before attaching them, here is how you can do that: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windo...-zip-files



***Edit: Looks like I was late! I'll take a look at this when I get home from work***