2.3.0.2 - Excessive transportation costs with auto-production on

[AstraMeccanica]

I'm manufacturing cars with auto-production on. Transportation is limited within continents. Despite this, on the pricing screen, transportation costs reach $300-400. I'm puzzled.

link with the photos: https://imgur.com/a/O53vg0K

By the way. As you can see from the pictures in link, I have a car model called "Beta". If I want to update the model, I'm forced to change its name because the game says "there is already a vehicle with this name". And of course there is, it's mine! I had very bug (?) on classic Gearcity too, from time to time


While we're at it, can someone explain to me what the screen blow is saying? I'm not clear on what those sliders actually do

[Eric.B]

Without the save game there isn't much I can tell you. You're also clipping the year. I suspect it's around 1920?

The distance from Madrid to St Petersburg is 3200km. Formula for shipping costs is:
https://wiki.gearcity.info/doku.php?id=g...s#shipping

Since I don't have the save in front of me, if I just plug 50 ratings into all the values and 0.5 ratings for the fuels, I get

(3200^1.03/((7.0+(50/85.0)+ (50/85.0)) * 1.004^21)) * ((0.7 / (7.0+(50/85.0)+ (50/85.0))) +1) * 1.0 * ((0.5+0.5)/2.0) = $248

But of course, 1920 Madrid and St. Petersburg is not going to be at a 50 rating.

Upload the save game, and I'll be happy to look for you.

I suggest splitting Europe into two and using the custom districts restrictions. Russia is really far away from Western Europe.

By the way. As you can see from the pictures in link, I have a car model called "Beta". If I want to update the model, I'm forced to change its name because the game says "there is already a vehicle with this name". And of course there is, it's mine! I had very bug (?) on classic Gearcity too, from time to time

Again, upload the save game, and I'll be happy to take a look at it. Note, you have to use "New Generation" or "New Trim" to reuse a name. And you can not use the same parent model for a new generation IF you already have.

While we're at it, can someone explain to me what the screen blow is saying? I'm not clear on what those sliders actually do

Autoproduction will add a factory line when the "speed" slider hits 68.9% It will remove a production line when the "speed" slider hits 30%.

https://www.ventdev.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3799

[Eric.B]

Looking it up, the gas rate in 1/1920 is 1.68646, and the default 1930 starting data would put Madrid to St. Pete at:

(3200^1.03/((7.0+(45/85.0)+ (40/85.0)) * 1.004^21)) * ((0.7 / (7.0+(45/85.0)+ (40/85.0))) +1) * 1.68 * ((1.1+1.1)/2.0) = $941.75

Then you get values subtracted based on bulk shipping. Also, prices will probably be a little higher since the city ratings are likely to be a little lower.

[StephenClark]

Note that if you have the 2nd Gear DLC, you can restrict autoproduction (and transportation) to custom districts.

[AstraMeccanica]

Looking it up, the gas rate in 1/1920 is 1.68646, and the default 1930 starting data would put Madrid to St. Pete at:

(3200^1.03/((7.0+(45/85.0)+ (40/85.0)) * 1.004^21)) * ((0.7 / (7.0+(45/85.0)+ (40/85.0))) +1) * 1.68 * ((1.1+1.1)/2.0) = $941.75

Then you get values subtracted based on bulk shipping. Also, prices will probably be a little higher since the city ratings are likely to be a little lower.

• Here's the save gasgasgas. yes, it's in 1920
  
• While uploading the save on google drive I tried closing the branches in helsinki and St petersburg. It still says 400$. I am more puzzled then ever.
  
• I'm not versed into formulas, so I didn't understand a thing about the above. But I sense you're saying the transportation costs shown are justifiable
  
• So I ran another test. New game, year 1901. Factory in Bologna, Italy. Branch in New York. It says distance 5001. 279$. It would be crazy that 5000 km in 1901 are cheaper than 3000 km in 1920
  
• As for the car naming. yes, I always use new generation (almost never trim but I guess I should start doing it for cheaper version devoted to other marques). As you can see from the save I eventually gave up and around 1919 I created a model named Beta II but I am still curious about this issue.
  

I suggest splitting Europe into two and using the custom districts restrictions. Russia is really far away from Western Europe.

Actually that was my initial plan. But auto producetion with custom districts isn't clear to me. If am not mistaken the game use continents by default. So what I am supposed to do is providing the game with a list of custom district he should consider instead of continents. Is that correct?

[Eric.B]

Here's the save gasgasgas. yes, it's in 1920

Thanks for the save game.

While uploading the save on google drive I tried closing the branches in helsinki and St petersburg. It still says 400$. I am more puzzled then ever.

Please note when you are looking at it from the District level, it is taking an average for all branches and then averaging that average. You removed one combination. There are likely many.

I'm not versed into formulas, so I didn't understand a thing about the above. But I sense you're saying the transportation costs shown are justifiable
So I ran another test. New game, year 1901. Factory in Bologna, Italy. Branch in New York. It says distance 5001. 279$. It would be crazy that 5000 km in 1901 are cheaper than 3000 km in 1920

Fuel prices were cheaper in 1901 than in 1920. You're also looking at Bologna and New York, which have higher infrastructure values than Tsarist/Communist Russia and collapsing Spain. There is also the monetary devaluation factor.

Please note what you see in the branch windows are estimates. If you go to the individual city, you see the price range from minimum to maximum prices. These estimates do not take into consideration factory shipping restrictions imposed by the AI Autoproduction system. They do account for branch-level and model-level shipping restrictions. Instead, use the metrics for Total Delivery Costs to see how secondary expenses are effecting your profit margins as a whole. And the Branch operations report is also helpful for catching high transportation costs.

As for the car naming. yes, I always use new generation (almost never trim but I guess I should start doing it for cheaper version devoted to other marques). As you can see from the save I eventually gave up and around 1919 I created a model named Beta II but I am still curious about this issue.

According to the save file, you made 2 Beta models.

There is the 1909 Beta and the 1915 Beta.

You already created a new generation of the 1909 Beta. You can not use this one to make a new generation anymore. You can select the 1915 Beta from the list and make a new generation. I just did that in the save game you sent.

   

I suggest splitting Europe into two and using the custom districts restrictions. Russia is really far away from Western Europe.

Actually that was my initial plan. But auto producetion with custom districts isn't clear to me. If am not mistaken the game use continents by default. So what I am supposed to do is providing the game with a list of custom district he should consider instead of continents. Is that correct?

Correct. You would make a list of custom districts. You will disable Regional Restriction inside the Shipping Restriction Configuration system. Then, you will move the custom districts you want to limit shipping to from the left list to the right list. Branches not in the right-list districts will be set to global shipping.

[AstraMeccanica]

According to the save file, you made 2 Beta models.

There is the 1909 Beta and the 1915 Beta.

You already created a new generation of the 1909 Beta. You can not use this one to make a new generation anymore. You can select the 1915 Beta from the list and make a new generation. I just did that in the save game you sent.

As I said before, I could make a new generation of 1915 beta, but I couldn't name is as Beta. So, making a new generation of 1915 beta is what I just did. But, as I said before, I was forced to name it Beta II. This really sounds like a bug to me.

Fuel prices were cheaper in 1901 than in 1920. You're also looking at Bologna and New York, which have higher infrastructure values than Tsarist/Communist Russia and collapsing Spain. There is also the monetary devaluation factor.

Please note what you see in the branch windows are estimates. If you go to the individual city, you see the price range from minimum to maximum prices. These estimates do not take into consideration factory shipping restrictions imposed by the AI Autoproduction system. They do account for branch-level and model-level shipping restrictions. Instead, use the metrics for Total Delivery Costs to see how secondary expenses are effecting your profit margins as a whole. And the Branch operations report is also helpful for catching high transportation costs.

I recovered a save of Vanilla Classic in 1921 that I played similarly.
Now, as different as the permutations of factories/branches may be (and they are not that different), as different as the traveling salesman algorithm may work on different data (and they are not that different), in VanillaClassic, the maximum transportation cost for Europe in 1921 is $160. And at that time I had a factory in Barcelona and a branch in Moscow. You can find the save here

This also seems to me to be an unsolved problem.

[Eric.B]

According to the save file, you made 2 Beta models.

There is the 1909 Beta and the 1915 Beta.

You already created a new generation of the 1909 Beta. You can not use this one to make a new generation anymore. You can select the 1915 Beta from the list and make a new generation. I just did that in the save game you sent.

As I said before, I could make a new generation of 1915 beta, but I couldn't name is as Beta. So, making a new generation of 1915 beta is what I just did. But, as I said before, I was forced to name it Beta II. This really sounds like a bug to me.

Well the picture I uploaded clearly shows that I was able to make a new generation of 1915 Beta. So, you'll need to figure out what you did in order to duplicate the issue you ran into. IE. When it happens again, try to remember what you did that session. Because I was unable to duplicate the issue.

Please note what you see in the branch windows are estimates. If you go to the individual city, you see the price range from minimum to maximum prices. These estimates do not take into consideration factory shipping restrictions imposed by the AI Autoproduction system. They do account for branch-level and model-level shipping restrictions. Instead, use the metrics for Total Delivery Costs to see how secondary expenses are effecting your profit margins as a whole. And the Branch operations report is also helpful for catching high transportation costs.

I recovered a save of Vanilla Classic in 1921 that I played similarly.
Now, as different as the permutations of factories/branches may be (and they are not that different), as different as the traveling salesman algorithm may work on different data (and they are not that different), in VanillaClassic, the maximum transportation cost for Europe in 1921 is $160. And at that time I had a factory in Barcelona and a branch in Moscow. You can find the save here

This also seems to me to be an unsolved problem.

Please reread the part you quoted of mine.

1) Estimations are estimations.

2) The autoproduction system has changed, the shipping costs are the same, but how the game sees shipping restrictions is now different.

3) 2nd Gear shows you global shipping estimates when autoproduction is enabled if a branch is not assigned to a restriction list. Classic GearCity is showing you regionally locked estimates. 2nd Gear is designed for you to use custom districts. Classic GC has predefined districts for Autoproduction

4) You are not selling anything in your Russian branch in the save game you just sent, but if you check the transportation costs and the TDC in the reports, the actual stuff you're paying, they're roughly the same.


I can check if I can make the estimates work for predefined districts in the AP, but if it is not an easy fix, it won't be changed. I don't recall if the new AP system lets you define shipping distances/locks branch. If it does, that's the solution for you to do to get a narrower estimation. Classic GC automatically locks your shipping to the predefined area, and locks you out with that giant lock button.

[Eric.B]

I took a second look at this issue for v2.4.0.1 and found that on the very first turn, the global gas rate is not properly set. So, if you were to outsource/license a vehicle on the first turn, and set up the branches, the transportation costs would be displayed much lower than they actually are. Upon simulating the turn, the fuel prices and transportation costs are corrected.

I have fixed this issue and the changes are in the next update.